Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

PamW

(1,825 posts)
14. 100% WRONG as ALWAYS
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 12:23 AM
Jul 2013

kristopher states:
Poor Dr.Greg/Pam. All hat, no cattle.

Considering the source; a person that is ALWAYS 100% WRONG; I guess I should be flattered.

Holding true to form, kristopher is also 100% in ERROR about reactive power. He has been commenting on the "reactive power" that will come from using V2G - vehicle to grid inverters, but all the while he has been oblivious to something very important:

Reactive power is a measure of something BAD!!!

Reactive power represents waste, inefficiency, and pollution of our power transmission lines.

Perhaps, kristopher can educate himself here:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_reactive_power

which states beginning at paragraph 4:

In other words, if your electrical appliance contains inductance or capacitance, then electrical energy will periodically return to the power plant, and it will flow back and forth across the power lines. This leads to an extra current in the power lines, a current which heats the power lines, but which isn't used to provide energy to the appliance.

and

This undesired "energy sloshing" effect can be eliminated. If an electrical load contains both a coil and capacitor, and if their resonant frequency is adjusted to exactly 60Hz, then the coil and capacitor like magic will begin to behave like a pure resistor.

As stated above, the reactive power or "energy sloshing" is undesirable, and it heats the power lines, but isn't used to provide energy to the appliance. In the case of loads, the undesired "energy sloshing" can be eliminated, but not for sources like V2G inverters. V2G inverters will inherently be a source of inefficiency and disruption to the power lines. The papers that kristopher references deal with ways to minimize but not eliminate the undesirable reactive power.

Another analogy is due to Prof. Sauer of the University of Illinois, presented courtesy of the University of Wisconsin:

http://www.pserc.wisc.edu/.../special.../Sauer_Reactive_Power_Sep_2003.pdf?

The footnote at the bottom of page 3 gives another analogy for "reactive power":

Another analogy that says that reactive power is the "foam on the beer" is fairly good here because the space in the glass is taken up by the useless foam - leaving less room for the "real" beer.

All the while kristopher has been touting the benefits of "instantaneous reactive power" that will be provided by the V2G - Vehicle to Grid inverters. However, in reality "reactive power" is BAD - it denotes energy waste and inefficiency on the power transmission line.

What are you going to be hawking next kristopher; cola laced with "fabulous strychnine".

Why don't you restrict yourself to subjects that you understand, which leaves.....????

Again, where did you say you studied electric power engineering?

I thought NOT!

PamW

Beneby makes an excellent point about 'discreet' customers cprise Jul 2013 #1
I assume he meant "discrete". BlueStreak Jul 2013 #15
jpak doesn't understand the issue PamW Jul 2013 #2
jpak understands the issue well kristopher Jul 2013 #4
Litany of scientific ERRORS by kristopher PamW Jul 2013 #9
Wow. caraher Jul 2013 #33
Yes, isn't it though? kristopher Jul 2013 #42
Well said. wercal Jul 2013 #26
WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! jpak Jul 2013 #43
Right, variable renewables are not a significant technical hurdle kristopher Jul 2013 #3
100% WRONG as ALWAYS PamW Jul 2013 #5
More ravings? kristopher Jul 2013 #6
BALONEY!!! 100% WRONG AGAIN!! PamW Jul 2013 #10
You spend 8 paragraphs BSing then 3 paragraphs admitting I'm right kristopher Jul 2013 #11
More BALONEY!!! PamW Jul 2013 #12
Only you talk of an all wind/all solar/or all solar wind grid. kristopher Jul 2013 #13
100% WRONG as ALWAYS PamW Jul 2013 #14
Wow, you really got me. kristopher Jul 2013 #18
OH BROTHER!!! - now LAME excuses... PamW Jul 2013 #20
Greg/Pam - Apparently you can't read kristopher Jul 2013 #21
I can READ!! PamW Jul 2013 #23
An litany of evolving mistakes, misunderstandings ... kristopher Jul 2013 #24
Again, .... oldhippie Jul 2013 #25
Sp Greg/Pam had to call in the peanut gallery again, huh? kristopher Jul 2013 #31
Why are you arguing about a theoretical problem that could only possibly occur BlueStreak Jul 2013 #16
Because he's dedicated himself to harassing me. kristopher Jul 2013 #19
This stuff is about politics, not about technology or science BlueStreak Jul 2013 #22
"no compelling reason ever to build (or extend) any nuclear or coal plant -- ever" kristopher Jul 2013 #44
It really is remarkable, yet completely missed (or ignored) by so many BlueStreak Jul 2013 #46
You mention V2G wercal Jul 2013 #28
It is an economic benefit to the EV owner kristopher Jul 2013 #30
I don't like the numbers wercal Jul 2013 #32
No, not time of day pricing kristopher Jul 2013 #34
You need more data and less wishful thinking wercal Jul 2013 #35
I'll take the first one FBaggins Jul 2013 #36
Well that's an entirely different concept that has been brought up here before wercal Jul 2013 #38
Uh-oh, kris is not going to like ..... oldhippie Jul 2013 #37
Ready for blast-off wercal Jul 2013 #39
You say "V2G is really a turn off for me" kristopher Jul 2013 #40
I'm going to borrow a phrase from my prior post: wercal Jul 2013 #45
That will make manufacturer warranties very "interesting" BlueStreak Jul 2013 #47
Interesting question kristopher Jul 2013 #48
The whole V2G thing makes absolutely no sense to me BlueStreak Jul 2013 #49
What do you think they use the batteries for? kristopher Jul 2013 #50
You really have to start backing up what you say wercal Jul 2013 #51
Right, the numbers are vast BlueStreak Jul 2013 #55
I believe elevating water is being used in Portugal right now wercal Jul 2013 #62
Hydrogen efficiency BlueStreak Jul 2013 #63
I believe the efficiency is currently 40%... wercal Jul 2013 #64
The economics of storage systems get better as we shift to intermittent sources BlueStreak Jul 2013 #65
They aren't going to pay me enough for that to make any sense BlueStreak Jul 2013 #53
Ah, I see you are actually a twin kristopher Jul 2013 #54
What?? BlueStreak Jul 2013 #56
Bluestreak and I most certainly are not the same wercal Jul 2013 #57
Be careful who you counsel ..... oldhippie Jul 2013 #58
Well I've tried to be polite... wercal Jul 2013 #59
Yes you have oldhippie Jul 2013 #60
Ah...I see wercal Jul 2013 #61
We have a winner wercal Jul 2013 #52
the issue is price quadrature Jul 2013 #7
That's true. It has been modeled in detail. kristopher Jul 2013 #8
And you don't have to stop at 100% BlueStreak Jul 2013 #17
In fact you can't FBaggins Jul 2013 #27
That 300% is a nonsense number, for a case that will never exist in the real world BlueStreak Jul 2013 #29
I agree wholeheartedly with all but the last sentence of your post kristopher Jul 2013 #41
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Environment & Energy»Intermittency Of Renewabl...»Reply #14