Environment & Energy

BlueStreak

(8,377 posts)

65. The economics of storage systems get better as we shift to intermittent sources

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 06:12 PM

Jul 2013

If pumped storage is already cost effective, when using fossil fuels, it can only become more attractive when using wind and solar. If plants can absorb a 20% efficiency loss today and still make it worthwhile to run those systems powered by coal or gas, it becomes an economic no-brainer when the original electricity is essentially free (variable cost-wise).

But whether it is compressed air or pumped storage, you can't just do that anywhere you like. It would be hard to find good sites for pumped storage in the great plains, and there are limited places where compressed air will work.

Diversity is the answer. Diversity in generation and diversity in storage systems.

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Intermittency Of Renewables?… Not So Much [View all] jpak Jul 2013 OP

Beneby makes an excellent point about 'discreet' customers cprise Jul 2013 #1

I assume he meant "discrete". BlueStreak Jul 2013 #15

jpak doesn't understand the issue PamW Jul 2013 #2

jpak understands the issue well kristopher Jul 2013 #4

Litany of scientific ERRORS by kristopher PamW Jul 2013 #9

Wow. caraher Jul 2013 #33

Yes, isn't it though? kristopher Jul 2013 #42

Well said. wercal Jul 2013 #26

WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! jpak Jul 2013 #43

Right, variable renewables are not a significant technical hurdle kristopher Jul 2013 #3

100% WRONG as ALWAYS PamW Jul 2013 #5

More ravings? kristopher Jul 2013 #6

BALONEY!!! 100% WRONG AGAIN!! PamW Jul 2013 #10

You spend 8 paragraphs BSing then 3 paragraphs admitting I'm right kristopher Jul 2013 #11

More BALONEY!!! PamW Jul 2013 #12

Only you talk of an all wind/all solar/or all solar wind grid. kristopher Jul 2013 #13

100% WRONG as ALWAYS PamW Jul 2013 #14

Wow, you really got me. kristopher Jul 2013 #18

OH BROTHER!!! - now LAME excuses... PamW Jul 2013 #20

Greg/Pam - Apparently you can't read kristopher Jul 2013 #21

I can READ!! PamW Jul 2013 #23

An litany of evolving mistakes, misunderstandings ... kristopher Jul 2013 #24

Again, .... oldhippie Jul 2013 #25

Sp Greg/Pam had to call in the peanut gallery again, huh? kristopher Jul 2013 #31

Why are you arguing about a theoretical problem that could only possibly occur BlueStreak Jul 2013 #16

Because he's dedicated himself to harassing me. kristopher Jul 2013 #19

This stuff is about politics, not about technology or science BlueStreak Jul 2013 #22

"no compelling reason ever to build (or extend) any nuclear or coal plant -- ever" kristopher Jul 2013 #44

It really is remarkable, yet completely missed (or ignored) by so many BlueStreak Jul 2013 #46

You mention V2G wercal Jul 2013 #28

It is an economic benefit to the EV owner kristopher Jul 2013 #30

I don't like the numbers wercal Jul 2013 #32

No, not time of day pricing kristopher Jul 2013 #34

You need more data and less wishful thinking wercal Jul 2013 #35

I'll take the first one FBaggins Jul 2013 #36

Well that's an entirely different concept that has been brought up here before wercal Jul 2013 #38

Uh-oh, kris is not going to like ..... oldhippie Jul 2013 #37

Ready for blast-off wercal Jul 2013 #39

You say "V2G is really a turn off for me" kristopher Jul 2013 #40

I'm going to borrow a phrase from my prior post: wercal Jul 2013 #45

That will make manufacturer warranties very "interesting" BlueStreak Jul 2013 #47

Interesting question kristopher Jul 2013 #48

The whole V2G thing makes absolutely no sense to me BlueStreak Jul 2013 #49

What do you think they use the batteries for? kristopher Jul 2013 #50

You really have to start backing up what you say wercal Jul 2013 #51

Right, the numbers are vast BlueStreak Jul 2013 #55

I believe elevating water is being used in Portugal right now wercal Jul 2013 #62

Hydrogen efficiency BlueStreak Jul 2013 #63

I believe the efficiency is currently 40%... wercal Jul 2013 #64

The economics of storage systems get better as we shift to intermittent sources BlueStreak Jul 2013 #65

They aren't going to pay me enough for that to make any sense BlueStreak Jul 2013 #53

Ah, I see you are actually a twin kristopher Jul 2013 #54

What?? BlueStreak Jul 2013 #56

Bluestreak and I most certainly are not the same wercal Jul 2013 #57

Be careful who you counsel ..... oldhippie Jul 2013 #58

Well I've tried to be polite... wercal Jul 2013 #59

Yes you have oldhippie Jul 2013 #60

Ah...I see wercal Jul 2013 #61

We have a winner wercal Jul 2013 #52

the issue is price quadrature Jul 2013 #7

That's true. It has been modeled in detail. kristopher Jul 2013 #8

And you don't have to stop at 100% BlueStreak Jul 2013 #17

In fact you can't FBaggins Jul 2013 #27

That 300% is a nonsense number, for a case that will never exist in the real world BlueStreak Jul 2013 #29

I agree wholeheartedly with all but the last sentence of your post kristopher Jul 2013 #41