Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
13. The German Greens are seriously making that claim because it is true
Thu Aug 1, 2013, 04:40 PM
Aug 2013

Here's an article which appeared in Spiegel not that long ago.
The original:
http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/unternehmen/kohle-meiler-treiben-deutschen-co2-ausstoss-a-912724.html
Google Translate:
http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiegel.de%2Fwirtschaft%2Funternehmen%2Fkohle-meiler-treiben-deutschen-co2-ausstoss-a-912724.html

y.
Berlin - Despite the German energy transition increases greenhouse gas emissions. Reason, the coal-fired power plants that are in full swing, as shown by data from the Federal Association of German Energy (BDEW). In the first half of lignite and hard coal power plants would have produced 12.4 percent more power, according to documents available to the Reuters news agency.


The German regulatory bodies are forcing some coal plants to remain open, and this is to balance out swings. But the plants are running along, and when the output from wind/solar is high, the very cheap output is being exported. When the output from solar/wind drops, the energy is used domestically.

The Germans are increasing their carbon footprint.

The problem is not really that the German output of renewable energy isn't climbing. It is. But it is climbing in an exceedingly unbalanced manner, and this increases the need for stabilizing power while making conventional power plants often too expensive to run. So what is happening is that some of the worst offenders are able to run very cheaply, whereas the new, more efficient and less polluting plants are probably not going to be built.

The upshot is increased net CO2 emissions (as well as of other pollutants, because some of this is brown coal),

The situation has gotten so bad that utilities are applying for permission to shut conventional power plants down, and many of them are going to be denied under the new law. But under the new scheme, they will have to be paid to keep them open. A lot of this is explained here:
http://www.germanenergyblog.de/?p=13691

This is a somewhat bizarre situation, but it was predictable. It remains to be seen what the eventual outcome will be.

Here is more about the law which has been passed to allow the Feds to force utilities to keep power plants up and running:
http://www.germanenergyblog.de/?p=10571

The best near-term way to get out of this is a somewhat speculative proposal to establish an auction-delivered reserve supply market (Versorgungssicherheitsmarkt):
http://www.germanenergyblog.de/?p=9178

Until they try this, they don't know how it will work. If you do a market-based approach like this, the cheaper coal plants that are increasingly being used now will still win out.

It's very possible that nuclear power plants will be shut down early by their operators, and if so, it appears that fossil-based energy outputs in Germany will continue to rise over the next 10 years.

Over the long run, the theory is that energy storage of peaks from wind supply, especially, should come online to help with the ever-growing grid stabilization problem. There are major cost issues, however, because of siting problems, transmission problems and cost problems. It is not clear that most of these units will be able to compete in such an auction-based system.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

. wtmusic Jul 2013 #1
German emissions down 25.5% since 1990, US emisions up 5% bananas Jul 2013 #2
Thank you. mbperrin Jul 2013 #3
Really, bananas? NickB79 Aug 2013 #4
Are you SERIOUSLY making the claim kristopher Aug 2013 #5
Are you seriously going to dismiss two years of back-to-back carbon increases? NickB79 Aug 2013 #6
You bet your sweet ass I am. kristopher Aug 2013 #7
Then you've gone round the bend. FBaggins Aug 2013 #8
You haven't been right about a single thing since this started. kristopher Aug 2013 #10
Oh my, oh my NickB79 Aug 2013 #15
So let me get this straight kristopher Aug 2013 #16
It remains to be seen? FBaggins Aug 2013 #22
You mean that your strawman has been wrong all along? FBaggins Aug 2013 #24
The German Greens are seriously making that claim because it is true Yo_Mama Aug 2013 #13
"this increases the need for stabilizing power" NickB79 Aug 2013 #14
Baseload, reactive, etc Yo_Mama Aug 2013 #21
It is always worth looking at what you leave out kristopher Aug 2013 #17
Except, Kristopher, that Germany passed a law preventing these shutdowns when necessary Yo_Mama Aug 2013 #25
Close... but not quite FBaggins Aug 2013 #27
It's amazing how short-sighted you can be FBaggins Aug 2013 #26
Since 1990? FBaggins Aug 2013 #9
They decided to eliminate nuclear power in 2000 kristopher Aug 2013 #11
And changed it after that FBaggins Aug 2013 #12
I haven't ignored it kristopher Aug 2013 #18
What you keep forgetting... FBaggins Aug 2013 #19
Not at all kristopher Aug 2013 #20
Lol! FBaggins Aug 2013 #23
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Environment & Energy»Merkel’s Green Shift (sic...»Reply #13