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Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
25. Except, Kristopher, that Germany passed a law preventing these shutdowns when necessary
Thu Aug 1, 2013, 09:15 PM
Aug 2013

They are now looking at having to subsidize these conventional power plants in order to maintain grid stability. In particular, they want to subsidize the planned gas plants, which will all be unprofitable but which are essential to cut emissions.

And coal generation in Germany is rising, which is why the Greens are so unhappy. But they don't currently have a way out.

Yes, the utilities want to shut these down. They can't make money off of them. But the grid will not be able to be stable without many of these plants, so now Germany has passed a law and will subsidize some of these plants to keep them open.

The paradox of the Energiewende is that so far renewable capacity and generation has expanded more quickly than planned, which allows nice figures to be put out showing an ever-increasing share of renewables as a power source. But this has only been accomplished by increasing fossil fuel emissions! One can show nice graphs showing cleaner power in the official energy mix, but it is not so nice when this has been accomplished by increasing the share of total production by coal and by increasing fossil fuel emissions on net.

Btw, this does not seem like it would be different if the nuclear plants were still all up - these older coal plants are easier to convert to modulate up and down. Some of them have installed coal grinding and dust blower units, so they blow in the amount they need to handle the fluctuating power demands.

There isn't much work going ahead on any other balancing projects right now, in part due to regulatory uncertainty. The very expensive battery campaign for solar is really a German jobs program, and it's not clear that it is going to help the grid balancing problem much.

The worst of it all is that the proposal to set up the power reserve is probably going to be dominated by these coal plants!

Recommendations

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. wtmusic Jul 2013 #1
German emissions down 25.5% since 1990, US emisions up 5% bananas Jul 2013 #2
Thank you. mbperrin Jul 2013 #3
Really, bananas? NickB79 Aug 2013 #4
Are you SERIOUSLY making the claim kristopher Aug 2013 #5
Are you seriously going to dismiss two years of back-to-back carbon increases? NickB79 Aug 2013 #6
You bet your sweet ass I am. kristopher Aug 2013 #7
Then you've gone round the bend. FBaggins Aug 2013 #8
You haven't been right about a single thing since this started. kristopher Aug 2013 #10
Oh my, oh my NickB79 Aug 2013 #15
So let me get this straight kristopher Aug 2013 #16
It remains to be seen? FBaggins Aug 2013 #22
You mean that your strawman has been wrong all along? FBaggins Aug 2013 #24
The German Greens are seriously making that claim because it is true Yo_Mama Aug 2013 #13
"this increases the need for stabilizing power" NickB79 Aug 2013 #14
Baseload, reactive, etc Yo_Mama Aug 2013 #21
It is always worth looking at what you leave out kristopher Aug 2013 #17
Except, Kristopher, that Germany passed a law preventing these shutdowns when necessary Yo_Mama Aug 2013 #25
Close... but not quite FBaggins Aug 2013 #27
It's amazing how short-sighted you can be FBaggins Aug 2013 #26
Since 1990? FBaggins Aug 2013 #9
They decided to eliminate nuclear power in 2000 kristopher Aug 2013 #11
And changed it after that FBaggins Aug 2013 #12
I haven't ignored it kristopher Aug 2013 #18
What you keep forgetting... FBaggins Aug 2013 #19
Not at all kristopher Aug 2013 #20
Lol! FBaggins Aug 2013 #23
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Environment & Energy»Merkel’s Green Shift (sic...»Reply #25