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kristopher

(29,798 posts)
29. Tougher nuts to crack?
Fri Oct 11, 2013, 09:10 PM
Oct 2013

No, they are an integral part of a renewable solution. The next time you hear someone opine about the amount of storage needed to make renewables work, bear in mind that battery electric vehicles and heating/cooling applications are perfectly suited to act as modes of storage for variable generation.

This is "Renewables 101". Are you seriously saying you aren't aware of how a world of renewable energy will function?

I'd suggest you read some literature that takes the overarching view of the issue. The best package is probably Rocky Mountain Institute and the recently published "ReInventing Fire".

Executive Summary

<snip>

In 2010, the United States (excluding non-combustion uses as raw materials) used 93 quadrillion BTU of primary energy, four-fifths of it fossil fuels. Official projections show this growing to 117 quads in 2050. But delivering those same services with less energy, more productively used, could shrink 2050 usage to 71 quads, eliminate the need for oil, coal, nuclear energy, and one-third of the natural gas, and save $5 trillion in net-present-valued cost. As a better-than-free byproduct of efficient use and a continued shift to renewable supplies, fossil carbon emissions would also shrink by 82–86% below their 2000 levels despite the assumed 2.58-fold bigger economy than in 2010.

Natural gas saved through more-efficient buildings and factories could be reallocated to cleaner, cheaper, and more efficient combined-heat-and-power in industry (though we conservatively assume none in buildings), to displacing oil and coal in buildings and factories, and optionally to fueling trucks. America’s energy supply in 2050 would end up roughly three-fourths renewable and one-fourth natural gas (the same fraction as in 2010, but of a smaller total—one-fourth less primary energy and one-third less delivered energy). The remaining gas use, which is probably conservatively high, could phase out over a few decades after 2050. Meanwhile, the United States could take advantage of new shale-gas resources if their many uncertainties turned out well, but not be caught short if they didn’t. Biomass would supply about six times more energy in 2050 than in 2010—two-thirds from waste streams (chiefly in industry) and one-third from cellulosic and algal feedstocks whose production wouldn’t interfere with food production nor harm soil or climate. Liquid biofuels needed for transportation would be equivalent to less than one-sixth today’s total U.S. oil consumption.

To shrink U.S. energy use while GDP grows 158% is not a fantasy; in nine of the 36 years through 2009, the U.S. economy actually did raise energy productivity faster than GDP grew. Chapters 2–5 show how to do that every year, with major competitive, security, health, and environmental advantages, simply by using energy in a way that saves money, modulating demand unobtrusively over time to match en ergy’s real-time value, and optimizing supply from the cheapest, least risky sour ces. This transition won’t be easy, but will be easier than not doing it. It is already underway, driven inexorably by innovation, competition, and customer preferences. Just as whale-oil suppliers ran out of customers in the 1850s before they ran out of whales, oil and coal are becoming uncompetitive even at low prices before they be come unavailable even at high prices. It’s about $5 trillion cheaper, and smarter in other ways, not to keep on burning them, even if their hidden costs were worth zero.

Realizing this potential does not require business to take a hit or suffer a loss. On the contrary, Reinventing Fire applies normal rate-of-return requirements in each sector, so each proposed change must earn at least a 12%/y real return in industry, 7% in buildings, and 5.7% in electricity, and new autos must repay any higher price within three years. Actually, the suggested investment portfolio considerably outperforms these hurdle rates: the Reinventing Fire strategy would achieve Internal Rates of Return averaging 33% in buildings, 21% in industry, 17% in transportation, and 14% across all sectors—including making the entire electricity system clean, secure, reliable, resilient, flexible, and at least 80% renewable. These are among the highest and least risky returns in the whole economy.

Overall, a $4.5-trillion extra investment would save $9.5 trillion, for a 2010-net-present-valued saving of $5 trillion during 2010–2050, and many key risks to individual business sectors, the whole economy, and national security would be mitigated or altogether abated. Counting the important hidden benefits and costs (to health, productivity, security, etc.) not included in these figures would ...

http://www.rmi.org/rfexecutivesummary

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Looks to me like madokie Oct 2013 #1
It doesn't have to be a problem for future generations... PamW Oct 2013 #2
Wonder why Japan didn't follow that path? kristopher Oct 2013 #10
Why didn't Japan build their own airliners instead of buying from Boeing / Airbus? PamW Oct 2013 #12
The question was why hasn't ANYONE pursued the IFR if it is so superior? kristopher Oct 2013 #13
The name is Pam!! PamW Oct 2013 #17
Nope kristopher Oct 2013 #18
WRONG! PamW Oct 2013 #19
I value the most effective means of reducing carbon emissions. kristopher Oct 2013 #20
WRONG, as per usual PamW Oct 2013 #21
No, Greg, you are wrong - again. kristopher Oct 2013 #22
WRONG!!! WRONG!!! WRONG!!! 100% WRONG!!! both the name and substance PamW Oct 2013 #33
This message was self-deleted by its author PamW Oct 2013 #3
In a world with static or declining energy demand this might be true GliderGuider Oct 2013 #4
Lets not get too carried away here madokie Oct 2013 #5
Agreed. I just wanted to get the idea out there, and this was as good a place as any. GliderGuider Oct 2013 #6
happy to be able to oblige madokie Oct 2013 #7
More of your hypothetical bullpucky kristopher Oct 2013 #8
I used 30 year averages to ensure that I wasn't mistaking noise for trend. GliderGuider Oct 2013 #9
No, you used 30 years to fudge the numbers kristopher Oct 2013 #11
Actually, I didn't. Here's the graphic proof of what I'm saying GliderGuider Oct 2013 #14
The picture has already changed. kristopher Oct 2013 #15
Not according to the data I have GliderGuider Oct 2013 #16
You're pointing your camera in the wrong direction kristopher Oct 2013 #23
At least you've stopped trying to beat us to death with Mark Z. Jacobsen... GliderGuider Oct 2013 #24
You stopped making the specific claims that Jacobson refuted. kristopher Oct 2013 #25
You can attribute whatever you wish. It's your belief system. GliderGuider Oct 2013 #26
Memo to sceptics of a low-carbon world – 'it's happening' kristopher Oct 2013 #27
What do Portugal's cars run on? What heats their homes? GliderGuider Oct 2013 #28
Tougher nuts to crack? kristopher Oct 2013 #29
I know that's the renewable dream, and that RMI are the head dreamers. GliderGuider Oct 2013 #30
It was abundantly clear you haven't got a clue... kristopher Oct 2013 #31
I call it "refining my understanding of the situation" GliderGuider Oct 2013 #32
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