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kristopher

(29,798 posts)
13. You can build coal plants optimized to support variable generation.
Fri Oct 18, 2013, 08:51 PM
Oct 2013

As can be seen with the quote GG pulled from the Guardian, the economics clash. That clash is specifically keyed to the inability of the extremely large scale turbines (both coal and nuclear) to cycle efficiently and rapidly. The older design can only be profitable when it is paid to run 24/7, shutting down (as much as possible) only for scheduled mx.

That is their economic niche.

The new plants that Germany built/is building were planned to both increase overall plant efficiency significantly and allow them to fill an economic niche that is able to retain its profitability in the face of a steadily declining load factor, or to put another way, in the face of selling a steadily declining amount of electricity; or to put it another way, in the fact of burning a steadily declining amount of coal.

Can you tell me of a country that has a more aggressive plan to move away from carbon? (Before you cite France, you might want to consider that their intentions are to move away from nuclear.) Most of the criticisms EE's nuclear club levels against Germany are built implicitly on the assumption that in the realm of generation, going large scale nuclear would not entail nuclear working in tandem with carbon generation. And that spending would also be undertaken to make sure that carbon generation was as efficient as possible in its role as a back up/complement for nuclear.

It makes sense to plan as Germany has. If you don't understand the need for the elements of the plan, it isn't because the plan lacks merit.

And, yes, Japan's emissions have skyrocketed, but that speaks to the fragile nature of the system built on nuclear than it does anything else.


Recommendations

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winning! phantom power Oct 2013 #1
No worries, eh? pscot Oct 2013 #2
Japan seems to have had no short term options except to jump from the frying pan into the fire. nt GliderGuider Oct 2013 #3
There was at least one much better option phantom power Oct 2013 #4
The domain of "short term options" is defined by political as well as technical feasability. nt GliderGuider Oct 2013 #5
Nuclear isn't at all compatible with renewables. kristopher Oct 2013 #8
So, the solution is...more coal-fired plants? NickB79 Oct 2013 #11
Interesting article from the Grauniad, thanks! GliderGuider Oct 2013 #12
You can build coal plants optimized to support variable generation. kristopher Oct 2013 #13
Where the economics clash, the plants shut down NickB79 Oct 2013 #14
"Where the economics clash, the plants shut down" is not a given. kristopher Oct 2013 #15
Its not so much radiation that people are terrified of madokie Oct 2013 #17
We frack here dbackjon Oct 2013 #6
Great example of why spending on nuclear is counterproductive to fighting GHG emissions kristopher Oct 2013 #7
Sure, sure... PamW Oct 2013 #9
That is pretty simplistic thinking that ignores many dimensions of the issue kristopher Oct 2013 #10
You know and I know that doesn't matter to this poster who you are replying too madokie Oct 2013 #18
I don't know about you.. PamW Oct 2013 #20
Pam you can be anyone or anything you want to be, I don't really care madokie Oct 2013 #21
I never understand... PamW Oct 2013 #23
Its the way you present madokie Oct 2013 #25
If you think I've made a scientific error - Please point it out... PamW Oct 2013 #28
Scientifically WRONG!!! again PamW Oct 2013 #19
There you go again madokie Oct 2013 #22
The animals are doing fine.. PamW Oct 2013 #24
The animals aren't doing fine, thats bullshit madokie Oct 2013 #26
The reason is that animals are thriving... PamW Oct 2013 #29
Mainly because animals have short lifespans NickB79 Oct 2013 #31
You really don't see what you say, do you? kristopher Oct 2013 #27
BAD nonscientific assumption being made. PamW Oct 2013 #30
No DrGreg, I didn't make a bad assumption. kristopher Oct 2013 #32
Lets talk about this a little bit madokie Oct 2013 #16
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Environment & Energy»Japan on gas, coal power ...»Reply #13