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PamW

(1,825 posts)
4. I'll let a scientist tell you what the problem is...
Sun Oct 20, 2013, 02:59 PM
Oct 2013

I'll let a scientist tell you what the problem is.

I've referenced this interview before; PBS's Frontline interviewing physicist Dr. Charles Till, who was Associate Director of Argonne National Laboratory; and a LEADER among our best scientists in the field of energy at Argonne.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/reaction/interviews/till.html

Q: What about Solar?

A: Solar? No.

Q: Wind?

A: No. Small amounts. Small amounts only. The simplest form of pencil calculation will tell you that. But you know, energy has to be produced for modern society on a huge scale. The only way you can do that is with energy sources that have concentrated energy in them: coal, oil, natural gas. And the quintessential example of it is nuclear, where the energy is so concentrated, you have something to work (with). With solar, your main problem is gathering it. In nuclear, it's there. It's been gathered.

That kind of sums it up. Even if you have a bunch of energy, you can't use it unless it is thermodynamically available under the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. A bunch of energy at ambient temperature doesn't do you any good because it isn't thermodynamically available.

If you have a big chunk of iron sitting on your desk; there's a lot of energy there because the iron is a few hundred degrees Kelvin above absolute zero. But because that energy is at ambient temperature; you can't do anything with it. Unfortunately, the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics wreaks havoc with a bunch of ill-considered ideas for energy generation, and puts some real physical limits on what we can / can not do. Sorry about that.

The good thing about science it that it is true, whether or not you believe in it.
--Neil deGrasse Tyson

PamW

Wonderful. Cleita Oct 2013 #1
Some governments see things in perspective.. PamW Oct 2013 #2
Find another way to boil water. wundermaus Oct 2013 #3
I'll let a scientist tell you what the problem is... PamW Oct 2013 #4
And I'll Let Max Planck rebut: Demeter Oct 2013 #5
You mean we have to let a generation of environmentalists die out? PamW Oct 2013 #6
NO, I mean we have to let a generation of nuclear sell-outs die off Demeter Oct 2013 #7
Sweetheart deal on price controls FogerRox Oct 2013 #8
£92.50 is the level they've set muriel_volestrangler Oct 2013 #11
The prediction for gas when the plant comes online is £74 FBaggins Oct 2013 #18
That's a sweetheart deal? FBaggins Oct 2013 #19
It's a lot less than offshore wind is getting Yo_Mama Oct 2013 #22
Then the analogy doesn't hold.... PamW Oct 2013 #9
No scientist would pervert a study like you have here. kristopher Oct 2013 #10
WRONG! PamW Oct 2013 #12
The credentials required are English language comprehension caraher Oct 2013 #14
WRONG too!! PamW Oct 2013 #15
Specifically which laws of physics are being violated? caraher Oct 2013 #16
Conservation of Energy PamW Oct 2013 #17
20% is at most a rough limit with no grid upgrades and no storage caraher Oct 2013 #20
That's not "at most"... it's exactly what they're saying. FBaggins Oct 2013 #21
Try to find the 1992 National Academy Energy Study PamW Oct 2013 #24
Well said & well sourced. FogerRox Oct 2013 #26
Well said K. FogerRox Oct 2013 #27
So many assumptions... I am sad for you. wundermaus Oct 2013 #23
So is the Hindenberg PamW Oct 2013 #25
Look, the only way we can sustain modern industrial society without fossil fuels is nuclear power. hunter Oct 2013 #13
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