Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search


(38,575 posts)
13. Look, the only way we can sustain modern industrial society without fossil fuels is nuclear power.
Mon Oct 21, 2013, 02:43 PM
Oct 2013

There is no choice. You cannot economically power electric steel, aluminum, and copper refineries, or most other modern heavy industry with wind or solar.

You cannot power your electric cars or high speed rail economically with wind or solar.

Most of us do not make enough money to power air conditioning in our homes or big box stores with wind or solar energy. Certainly not our automobiles.

I don't make enough money to buy an electric automobile or the solar panels to power it. I feel happy when I pay off a single medical debt. My credit rating is in the toilet. My credit cards were canceled years ago because I mistakingly brought my wallet to an Emergency Room. (Advice from Hunter: If you ever have to visit the E.R. throw away your wallet first. Aim for the nearest storm drain if you are bleeding or suffering chest pains. You are already in a place beyond money. Here in the U.S.A. the Fates own you once shit happens. And you will quickly learn your "good" insurance sucks.)

I'm not fond of nuclear power so that's why I'm a Luddite. My most excellent means of transportation are walking and sailing. Bicycling and horses are pretty good too, for you more modern sort of folks. I figure if I don't have shoes I'll grow calluses. It was good enough for my ancestors who ALL managed to walk or sail away from trouble and reproduce.

Humans populated the entire planet without fossil fuels. I like to think we could choose much lower energy lifestyles without abandoning the very finest fruits of our technologies. I don't tend to buy things. I pay for an internet connection, I have a trash-canned single core computer running Linux, and here I am.

We could throw away the cars, the airlines, the air conditioned big box stores, the parking lots, all the fossil fuels, our "consumer society" entirely, and keep only the good stuff like medicine, high education, arts, and world wide communication networks. That would be a better world, but I have zero expectations it will happen.

The shit storms will continue.

Wonderful. Cleita Oct 2013 #1
Some governments see things in perspective.. PamW Oct 2013 #2
Find another way to boil water. wundermaus Oct 2013 #3
I'll let a scientist tell you what the problem is... PamW Oct 2013 #4
And I'll Let Max Planck rebut: Demeter Oct 2013 #5
You mean we have to let a generation of environmentalists die out? PamW Oct 2013 #6
NO, I mean we have to let a generation of nuclear sell-outs die off Demeter Oct 2013 #7
Sweetheart deal on price controls FogerRox Oct 2013 #8
92.50 is the level they've set muriel_volestrangler Oct 2013 #11
The prediction for gas when the plant comes online is 74 FBaggins Oct 2013 #18
That's a sweetheart deal? FBaggins Oct 2013 #19
It's a lot less than offshore wind is getting Yo_Mama Oct 2013 #22
Then the analogy doesn't hold.... PamW Oct 2013 #9
No scientist would pervert a study like you have here. kristopher Oct 2013 #10
WRONG! PamW Oct 2013 #12
The credentials required are English language comprehension caraher Oct 2013 #14
WRONG too!! PamW Oct 2013 #15
Specifically which laws of physics are being violated? caraher Oct 2013 #16
Conservation of Energy PamW Oct 2013 #17
20% is at most a rough limit with no grid upgrades and no storage caraher Oct 2013 #20
That's not "at most"... it's exactly what they're saying. FBaggins Oct 2013 #21
Try to find the 1992 National Academy Energy Study PamW Oct 2013 #24
Well said & well sourced. FogerRox Oct 2013 #26
Well said K. FogerRox Oct 2013 #27
So many assumptions... I am sad for you. wundermaus Oct 2013 #23
So is the Hindenberg PamW Oct 2013 #25
Look, the only way we can sustain modern industrial society without fossil fuels is nuclear power. hunter Oct 2013 #13
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Environment & Energy»Britain to build Europe's...»Reply #13