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Bill USA

(6,436 posts)
20. Farrell et al found Ethn ENergy balance positive, found Pimentel & Patzek's findings highly dubious
Mon Oct 28, 2013, 03:33 PM
Oct 2013

Farrell et al study: Ethanol Can Contribute to Energy and Environmental Goals, was published in Jan 2006 in the journal Science.

Farrell et al examined several studies of Ethanol's net energy balance (net energy output -- i.e. net of energy inputs)
they found two 'studies' in particular that were dubious as to conclusions because of unexpained inputs and "input data that are old and unrepresentative of current processes, or so poorly documented that their quality cannot be evaluated".....the 'studies' referred to were two articles by Pimentel and Tad Patzek (a former petroleum engineer for on of the major oil companies, I bevlieve is was Shell Oil):

http://fire.pppl.gov/ethanol_science_012706.pdf


[font size="3"]Two of the studies stand out from the others because they report negative net energy values and imply relatively high GHG emissions and petroleum inputs ([font color="red"]11, 12[/font]). The close evaluation required to replicate the net energy results showed that these two studies also stand apart from the others by incorrectly assuming that ethanol coproducts (materials inevitably generated when ethanol is made, such as dried distiller grains with solubles, corn gluten feed, and corn oil) should not be credited with any of the input energy and by including some input data that are old and unrepresentative of current processes, or so poorly documented that their quality cannot be evaluated.

References and Notes:

[font color="red"]11. T. Patzek, Crit. Rev. Plant Sci. 23, 519 (2004).
12. D. Pimentel, T. Patzek, Nat. Resour. Res. 14, 65 (2005).[/font]
[/font]

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Weren't they making flex fuel vehicles for a while? johnd83 Oct 2013 #1
all the detroit car manufacterers make them, but... they make no effort to take advantage of Bill USA Oct 2013 #2
That is interesting johnd83 Oct 2013 #5
No effort at all. In the 1998 Ethanol Vehicle Challenge, 13 college engineering student teams Bill USA Oct 2013 #8
Interesting johnd83 Oct 2013 #10
we can use methanol & produce it cheaper than ethanol & in enough volume to totally replace gasoline Bill USA Oct 2013 #13
Methanol is not a great fuel johnd83 Oct 2013 #14
alas if we wait for the perfect fuel, or for electrics to save us, the Earth will burn. all we can Bill USA Oct 2013 #22
3 MIT scientists went further, Dirctly Injectng ethanol, turbo-charging & downsizing boosted mpg 30% Bill USA Oct 2013 #9
worst mileage I have a Tahoe and it sucks on just ethanol Historic NY Oct 2013 #4
You can call it a myth but we went throught this in the 70's..... Historic NY Oct 2013 #3
NREL review of E15 effects on MY2001 and later cars finds no meaningful differences with E10 Bill USA Oct 2013 #23
Really....will they pay to overhaul my early 70's and later 40's vehicles... Historic NY Oct 2013 #26
do I need to repeat the title of the study for you or 'splain the meaning of '2001' to you? Bill USA Oct 2013 #29
It isn't good for outboard motors and motorcycle engines. Enthusiast Oct 2013 #6
Is the israeli lobby pushing this? pscot Oct 2013 #7
all the legitimate research on this shows ethanol is a net energy gainer, unlike gasoline (.81) Bill USA Oct 2013 #11
Processing Ethanol Byproducts( Alternative Energy Patent Study) rhoanken20 Nov 2013 #37
welcome to DU gopiscrap Nov 2013 #38
one of the founders i know is an internet software designer billionaire. OF course, at least one of Bill USA Oct 2013 #12
If you go to the companies website pscot Oct 2013 #15
Farrell et al found Ethn ENergy balance positive, found Pimentel & Patzek's findings highly dubious Bill USA Oct 2013 #20
Here is NREL's 2012 test of vehicles using E0, E10, E15, E20 for 60k, 90k and 120k miles. IF there Bill USA Oct 2013 #24
food for fuel is immoral 4dsc Oct 2013 #16
GW is on course to start feeding on itself. I believe the best we can do is mitigate the disaster Bill USA Oct 2013 #18
And of course it's debatable that GMO corn is food poopfuel Oct 2013 #25
Elsie seems to be showing an unusual reaction to that new corn Monsanto requires me to grow for feed Bill USA Oct 2013 #28
Agreed. 100%. AnotherMcIntosh Oct 2013 #27
Normal to test at the margins of the Specifications One_Life_To_Give Oct 2013 #17
nothing legitimate in CRCs 'study' adding sulfuric acid to E20 saying it was E15, it's FRAUD Bill USA Oct 2013 #19
Sulphuric Acid is normally present in Ethonol Blended fuels One_Life_To_Give Oct 2013 #31
in wet milling Sulfuric acid is used but this is b4 centrifuging & distillation after fermentation Bill USA Oct 2013 #32
Hows that compare to ASTM D4806 Limits? One_Life_To_Give Oct 2013 #35
it's way out.....pHe not less than 6.5 per astm D-6423 (ASTM D 4806 refers to D6423) Bill USA Oct 2013 #36
one solution to the problem is install "blenders" pumps. You can set whatever blendof ethanol u want Bill USA Oct 2013 #21
So if you can't afford to buy a late model car screw you! I know from doc03 Oct 2013 #30
note: blenders pump comment (21) link provided. Bill USA Oct 2013 #33
Ethanol is crap. There's no sugar-coating it. Owl Oct 2013 #34
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