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PamW

(1,825 posts)
5. 100% WRONG!!
Tue Nov 5, 2013, 08:32 PM
Nov 2013

johnd83 states
Also, Thorium reactors don't "melt down". They require an outside neutron to transmute Th232 to U233. There is no "chain reaction", meaning that if the outside excitation is removed the system will stop.

The reaction that transmutes Th-232 to U-233 doesn't give you any energy.

The energy comes from a neutron impact on the U-233 thus created to yield a fission. The fission reaction gives you the energy, but also gives you fission products.

Fission products are radioactive and produce what is called "decay heat". Meltdowns are NOT caused by fission energy. In Three Mile Island and Fukushima, the fission process had stopped LONG before the meltdown. So what caused those meltdowns? The heat energy from the radioactive fission products. If you produce energy, you are causing fissions, and if you are causing fissions, you get fission products, and if you have fission products, and lose your cooling and don't cool them, you get a meltdown.

It's a bit of non-scientific hype that thorium cycle reactors are immune from meltdowns. Online removal of fission products with a liquid fuel reactor, thorium or uranium, can mitigate meltdowns by removing fission products. But just because a reactor runs on a thorium-cycle doesn't make it immune from meltdowns.

Courtesy of my alma mater, the Massachusetts Institute of Technology:

Explanation of Nuclear Reactor Decay Heat

http://mitnse.com/2011/03/16/what-is-decay-heat/

When there is a SCRAM, where all the control rods are inserted and the reactor is shutdown, the fission reactions essentially stop and the power drops drastically to about 7% of full power in 1 second. The power does not drop to zero because of the radioactive isotopes that remain from the prior fissioning of the fuel. These radioactive isotopes, also called fission products, continue to produce various types of radiation as they decay, such as gamma rays, beta particles, and alpha particles. The decay radiation then deposits most of its energy in the fuel, and this is what is referred to as decay heat.

It's all right there. When you SCRAM or shutdown the reactor, the fissions STOP; the reactor is NOT critical.

If you produced nuclear energy from PRIOR fissions, then you have fission products.

If you have fission products; you have decay heat and susceptibility to meltdowns.

PamW

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Won't take long for CFLDem Nov 2013 #1
Sorry, but bunk johnd83 Nov 2013 #2
100% WRONG!! PamW Nov 2013 #5
I think you misunderstand my point johnd83 Nov 2013 #7
100% WRONG PamW Nov 2013 #16
The thorium reactors use a particle accelerator johnd83 Nov 2013 #17
WRONG AGAIN!! PamW Nov 2013 #20
There is plenty of water to moderate neutrons in a damaged reactor johnd83 Nov 2013 #25
Reactor Physics 101 PamW Nov 2013 #29
The other advantage of thorium is the decay products become inert much faster johnd83 Nov 2013 #30
Actually it is NOT a huge assumption... PamW Nov 2013 #35
I still don't understand your point johnd83 Nov 2013 #36
Criticality in non-operating - but NOT in melted. PamW Nov 2013 #39
You are 100% WRONG johnd83 Nov 2013 #38
100% WRONG!!! PamW Nov 2013 #40
Yes, I was going to remark about the five ton engine it would take Warpy Nov 2013 #27
I want a nuclear vacuum cleaner! longship Nov 2013 #3
Those are different technologies johnd83 Nov 2013 #4
Yup! They are talking about a Sterling engine now. longship Nov 2013 #6
The Voyager spacecraft only hase a few hundred watts of power johnd83 Nov 2013 #8
Voyager has shut down its cameras. Long ago. longship Nov 2013 #9
I think for the next 100 years or so it is going to be mostly manned/unmanned craft johnd83 Nov 2013 #10
Fusion, unfortunately, is probably a long way off. longship Nov 2013 #11
Fusion power is not really that far off johnd83 Nov 2013 #12
But the technology is not yet practical. longship Nov 2013 #13
The technology I linked to is a magnetic containment plasma system johnd83 Nov 2013 #14
Yes! And I've heard of another in Europe. longship Nov 2013 #15
Correct. PamW Nov 2013 #22
Fusion propulsion is a lot easier than electricity generation bananas Nov 2013 #18
If you're going to use it for propulsion, yes. longship Nov 2013 #19
Not quite... PamW Nov 2013 #21
I never said that one would get to light speeds. longship Nov 2013 #23
Look at momentum per unit energy PamW Nov 2013 #41
Thanks. longship Nov 2013 #42
That's if your concern is momentum per unit energy; but often it's not, in rockets muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #43
Let's examine TOTAL mass.. PamW Nov 2013 #44
Well, yes, that's the point - you use nuclear power, or solar (ie external) muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #45
IF Polywell Fusion works VASIMIR is DOA FogerRox Nov 2013 #46
Does anyone have the faintest idea what process is being claimed here? muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #24
I didn't get that either johnd83 Nov 2013 #26
"And he hasn’t released any papers, only press releases." arcane1 Nov 2013 #28
I'll try to post on it later - basically, you can increase decay rate by jiggling it with a laser bananas Nov 2013 #33
Finally found a somewhat relevant hit bananas Nov 2013 #34
Thanks - that gives us a theory that the laser is relevant muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #37
Oh, I agree, it's as credible as his "USEING HELYXZION TECHNOLOGY WE CAN CURE “ALL” DISEASE" bananas Nov 2013 #48
I forgot that one. kristopher Nov 2013 #49
Not the faintest. FogerRox Nov 2013 #47
It won't work, period. NNadir Nov 2013 #31
Why, Are we still thinking in individual cars, individual propulsion systems, ... CRH Nov 2013 #32
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