Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

PamW

(1,825 posts)
44. Let's examine TOTAL mass..
Sat Nov 9, 2013, 11:41 AM
Nov 2013

muriel,

So let's examine the Total mass needed for a given amount of momentum.

Let m = reaction mass. Since p = mv; the reaction mass needed for momentum p is m = p/v

Let M = fuel mass. Let "e" = energy delivered to reaction mass per unit mass of fuel.

So for momentum p; the energy needed is p / ( 2/v ) = pv / 2

So the amount of fuel mass is pv / (2e); where "e" is the specific energy of the fuel ( including efficiency )

So the total amount of mass is the sum of reaction mass and fuel mass = p/v + pv/(2e)

So total mass per unit momentum is 1/v + v/(2e)

Put some realistic numbers in for "e" to see which of the two terms dominates; and unless you use something like nuclear power with high specific energy as your energy source; the fuel mass will dominate.

Let's also see how much momentum we can get from firing a large laser. The world's most powerful laser is the one at the National Ignition Facility in Livermore. The "footprint" of the laser is the size of about 3 football fields. A shot on NIF can produce up to 1.8 megajoules.

So with E = pc or p = E/c we have 1.8 MJ / c = 1.8e+06 km-m^2/s^2 / 3.0e+08 m/s = 6.0e-03 km-m/s

So there really isn't much danger that NIF is going to break loose from its footings with a puny reaction like that.

PamW

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Won't take long for CFLDem Nov 2013 #1
Sorry, but bunk johnd83 Nov 2013 #2
100% WRONG!! PamW Nov 2013 #5
I think you misunderstand my point johnd83 Nov 2013 #7
100% WRONG PamW Nov 2013 #16
The thorium reactors use a particle accelerator johnd83 Nov 2013 #17
WRONG AGAIN!! PamW Nov 2013 #20
There is plenty of water to moderate neutrons in a damaged reactor johnd83 Nov 2013 #25
Reactor Physics 101 PamW Nov 2013 #29
The other advantage of thorium is the decay products become inert much faster johnd83 Nov 2013 #30
Actually it is NOT a huge assumption... PamW Nov 2013 #35
I still don't understand your point johnd83 Nov 2013 #36
Criticality in non-operating - but NOT in melted. PamW Nov 2013 #39
You are 100% WRONG johnd83 Nov 2013 #38
100% WRONG!!! PamW Nov 2013 #40
Yes, I was going to remark about the five ton engine it would take Warpy Nov 2013 #27
I want a nuclear vacuum cleaner! longship Nov 2013 #3
Those are different technologies johnd83 Nov 2013 #4
Yup! They are talking about a Sterling engine now. longship Nov 2013 #6
The Voyager spacecraft only hase a few hundred watts of power johnd83 Nov 2013 #8
Voyager has shut down its cameras. Long ago. longship Nov 2013 #9
I think for the next 100 years or so it is going to be mostly manned/unmanned craft johnd83 Nov 2013 #10
Fusion, unfortunately, is probably a long way off. longship Nov 2013 #11
Fusion power is not really that far off johnd83 Nov 2013 #12
But the technology is not yet practical. longship Nov 2013 #13
The technology I linked to is a magnetic containment plasma system johnd83 Nov 2013 #14
Yes! And I've heard of another in Europe. longship Nov 2013 #15
Correct. PamW Nov 2013 #22
Fusion propulsion is a lot easier than electricity generation bananas Nov 2013 #18
If you're going to use it for propulsion, yes. longship Nov 2013 #19
Not quite... PamW Nov 2013 #21
I never said that one would get to light speeds. longship Nov 2013 #23
Look at momentum per unit energy PamW Nov 2013 #41
Thanks. longship Nov 2013 #42
That's if your concern is momentum per unit energy; but often it's not, in rockets muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #43
Let's examine TOTAL mass.. PamW Nov 2013 #44
Well, yes, that's the point - you use nuclear power, or solar (ie external) muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #45
IF Polywell Fusion works VASIMIR is DOA FogerRox Nov 2013 #46
Does anyone have the faintest idea what process is being claimed here? muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #24
I didn't get that either johnd83 Nov 2013 #26
"And he hasn’t released any papers, only press releases." arcane1 Nov 2013 #28
I'll try to post on it later - basically, you can increase decay rate by jiggling it with a laser bananas Nov 2013 #33
Finally found a somewhat relevant hit bananas Nov 2013 #34
Thanks - that gives us a theory that the laser is relevant muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #37
Oh, I agree, it's as credible as his "USEING HELYXZION TECHNOLOGY WE CAN CURE “ALL” DISEASE" bananas Nov 2013 #48
I forgot that one. kristopher Nov 2013 #49
Not the faintest. FogerRox Nov 2013 #47
It won't work, period. NNadir Nov 2013 #31
Why, Are we still thinking in individual cars, individual propulsion systems, ... CRH Nov 2013 #32
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Environment & Energy»Thorium vehicle will run ...»Reply #44