Environment & Energy

kristopher

(29,798 posts)

7. Thanks for that information

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 01:12 PM

Nov 2013

"You can see that German coal consumption, for example, was at .994 in 2011, less than half of what it was in 1965. Poland peaked at 2.857 in 1980, 1.561 in 2011."

...

"The collapse of carbon trading hasn't just caused the latest round of coal industry aggressiveness, it's also idled gas plants in Bavaria, Spain, and France, and those people are not happy. In fact, just judging from the sheer size of the idle investment, they may be hurt more than renewables, by far."

Even though the graph wasn't that helpful (no E/W Germany), the 1965 benchmark is one I haven't seen used before. Accepting your words, though, it certainly adds context to go back to that date.

I have to agree with you about the entities that are being hurt by the collapse of the carbon credit market.

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German renewables are invading Poland [View all] kristopher Nov 2013 OP

BTW, Poland's per capita coal consumtion is still less than the US, Iterate Nov 2013 #1

Only because their per-capita electricity consumption is less than a third of ours. FBaggins Nov 2013 #2

Of course it's not ok. But look, there's a squirrel! Iterate Nov 2013 #5

Bravo! kristopher Nov 2013 #6

Us coal consumption has been declining in the past few years kristopher Nov 2013 #3

It peaked in 2000 at 2.014 mtoe, down to 1.603 in 2011. Iterate Nov 2013 #4

Thanks for that information kristopher Nov 2013 #7

It's because it destabilizes their grid! Yo_Mama Nov 2013 #8

Destabilizes the economics of their grid. kristopher Nov 2013 #9

Hardly FBaggins Nov 2013 #10

"Renewables don't destabilize grid economics" kristopher Nov 2013 #11

You've failed to make your case FBaggins Nov 2013 #12

To your nuclear loving mind, perhaps... kristopher Nov 2013 #13

At all really. FBaggins Nov 2013 #14

Regardless of the actual value? kristopher Nov 2013 #15

I don't see how that could be confusing. FBaggins Nov 2013 #16

You mean the way coal's price reflects its "actual value"? kristopher Nov 2013 #17

Nope. FBaggins Nov 2013 #18

You haven't answered anything. kristopher Nov 2013 #19

Of course I have... you just don't want to accept the answers. FBaggins Nov 2013 #21

Numerous studies show that Central Europe is ripe for renewables. kristopher Nov 2013 #20