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caraher

(6,364 posts)
17. Well, I think we all get that The Nation is not a technical journal
Sat Nov 30, 2013, 07:24 PM
Nov 2013

and I can appreciate that one can form political opinions on one's own.

But knowing the "facts" require investigation, and the infotainment industry does a poor job supporting investigative journalism. I count on publications like The Nation to bring things to my attention that I hadn't known about before. And when The Nation publishes something I think is wrong - and I've definitely seen that happen - I tend to be disappointed in them, rather than thinking, "Well, what do I expect, it's "The Nation," after all..."

So I thought I'd ask what you do read, given that you seemed to react to "The Nation" the way I would to, say, FOX News... It seemed like the kind of thing someone who didn't think that our country is better off, overall, with Democrats in elected office than Republicans might say.

Some of your gripes with the piece are inappropriately pendantic given its purpose, which is not to teach nuclear physics but to discuss nuclear power in light of the film. So when Hertsgaard says "fission produces plutonium," you have to use an obstinately literal interpretation to generate your ERROR!. As you yourself demonstrate, any fission reactor with U-238 in its fuel rods will produce plutonium, which only supports the main purpose of the sentence - establishing that ordinary fission reactors always produce some Pu-239. His statement is no more in error than to speak of "electricity generated from fission," a perfectly acceptable shorthand for the many processes that happen in a reactor between the fission reaction and electricity flowing across a power line.

Moreover, while historically concern on Iran has focused on enrichment, there is new concern about their possibly working the plutonium route as well, as Hertszgaard suggests.

The sodium issue is a matter of both you and Hertsgaard selecting only the facets of the situation that suit your respective cases. You just look silly pretending his beef is that the coolant is a liquid metal, because it's more the fact that liquid sodium burns that he's concerned about - and you do concede his claim that "nearly all of the world’s sodium-cooled reactors have suffered fires" is factually accurate. I've worked with small quantities of liquid metals many times, including liquid sodium, and there's a very different level of risk associated with liquid sodium compared to, say, molten aluminum or electrical solder - both of which merely solidify, rather than catching fire, if you spill them. This is not to say liquid sodium cannot be used safely as a coolant as a fact of engineering practice, but it does mean that there's one more important risk factor to consider in building a plant.

Finally, referring to this published conversation between Hertsgaard and Terry Tempest-Williams as a "rebuttal" shows a very mistaken understanding of the nature of the piece. While there's no doubt that Hertsgaard's rhetorical purpose is anti-nuclear, Williams persistently tells Hertsgaard that the film did cause a reassessment of nuclear in her mind, even after hearing his criticisms. For all your purported devotion to "facts," your gripes with Hertsgaard boil down to things like speculation about what was on Kerry's mind when IFR got canceled and nit-picking word choice in a transcript of a conversation.

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0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Yes, the EIA publish data on expected energy future use AND all sources of energy. happyslug Nov 2013 #1
That tells you nothing of the sort kristopher Nov 2013 #2
Lack of understanding of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics... PamW Nov 2013 #11
Nope kristopher Nov 2013 #13
100% WRONG AGAIN as always!! PamW Nov 2013 #15
This message was self-deleted by its author kristopher Nov 2013 #22
It was EXACTLY the level of journalistic quality that I would have expected from "The Nation". caraher Nov 2013 #3
I don't have a favorite political publication PamW Nov 2013 #7
Well, I think we all get that The Nation is not a technical journal caraher Nov 2013 #17
It's STILL an ERROR PamW Nov 2013 #18
Kerry didn't lie, in fact he was validated by MIT a decade later bananas Nov 2013 #4
More typical anti-nuke "logic" PamW Nov 2013 #8
There are four primary problem area with nuclear technology (not counting social and systems issues) kristopher Nov 2013 #9
We can address those... PamW Nov 2013 #20
"The MIT study chooses "once through" over closed due to cost." - Nope. kristopher Nov 2013 #21
100% WRONG!! PamW Dec 2013 #25
You're morphing your previous failure into yet another failed argument kristopher Dec 2013 #27
100% WRONG as ALWAYS!! PamW Dec 2013 #29
MIT study on Proliferation Resistant Fast Reactor PamW Dec 2013 #30
I'm sure NNSA and MIT didn't have that data. kristopher Dec 2013 #31
I'm SURE NNSA and MIT had that data PamW Dec 2013 #32
The conclusions of both MIT and NNSA refute your claims. kristopher Dec 2013 #33
NOT AT ALL PamW Dec 2013 #34
You've been completely and absolutely refuted kristopher Dec 2013 #35
Non-scientist kristopher is 100% WRONG AGAIN PamW Dec 2013 #36
A "Proliferation Resistant" Reactor is like a "Water Resistant" Watch bananas Dec 2013 #39
OH REALLY????? PamW Dec 2013 #40
PamW wrote: "Iran is seeking NOT a plutonium bomb, but a uranium bomb." bananas Nov 2013 #5
Do you doubt it? PamW Nov 2013 #10
What about the National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA)? kristopher Nov 2013 #14
You are arguing with the SCIENTISTS!!! PamW Nov 2013 #16
No, I'm quoting the scientists kristopher Nov 2013 #19
WRONG!!! PamW Nov 2013 #23
No, it isn't wrong. kristopher Dec 2013 #24
100% WRONG as ALWAYS!! PamW Dec 2013 #28
DOE: "Virtually any combination of plutonium isotopes...can be used to make a nuclear weapon." bananas Nov 2013 #6
Actualy; the above is NOT true. PamW Nov 2013 #12
No, PamW; Richard Garwin, John Holdren, and President Obama all know you're wrong. bananas Dec 2013 #37
Its a fools errand madokie Dec 2013 #38
BALONEY!!! PamW Dec 2013 #41
No, Pamw, you're wrong again. bananas Dec 2013 #42
Sorry... once again, you've cited something that you simply don't understand. FBaggins Dec 2013 #43
ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!! PamW Dec 2013 #44
Sorry... once again, you've corrected someone when it's you that's wrong kristopher Dec 2013 #46
100% WRONG!! AGAIN!! PamW Dec 2013 #48
I can read and Selden's language is unambiguous kristopher Dec 2013 #49
WRONG AGAIN!! PamW Dec 2013 #50
Ah... but not if you read without understanding. FBaggins Dec 2013 #56
CORRECT!!! PamW Dec 2013 #62
bananas and kristopher certainly win on source credibility here caraher Dec 2013 #51
NOPE!! They do NOT!! PamW Dec 2013 #52
Well, it seems you are a liar, traitor or a fool - your choice caraher Dec 2013 #53
NOPE!!! PamW Dec 2013 #55
Nope. FBaggins Dec 2013 #54
EXCELLENT!!! PamW Dec 2013 #58
"If you have any type of plutonium in sufficient quantities you can make a bomb." Selden 2009 kristopher Dec 2013 #59
An we've both explained to you what that means. FBaggins Dec 2013 #60
A clear example of how he was being SLOPPY!!! PamW Dec 2013 #61
More citations on the point of plutonium for weapons kristopher Dec 2013 #63
Non-scientist kristopher MISSES the implicit assumption PamW Dec 2013 #64
"what comes out of an Integral Fast Reactor" kristopher Dec 2013 #65
Yes - I know Harold... PamW Dec 2013 #66
And that brings us full circle kristopher Dec 2013 #67
100% WRONG!! AGAIN!! PamW Dec 2013 #68
Oh look - George Stanford says it TWICE in that interview! bananas Dec 2013 #69
bananas LITANY of ERRORS!! PamW Dec 2013 #70
Evidently bananas does NOT understand... PamW Dec 2013 #71
What's happened to HONESTY!!! PamW Dec 2013 #45
Yes, what happened to honesty? kristopher Dec 2013 #47
Pam - don't worry about him FreakinDJ Dec 2013 #57
The movie was such a blatant farce, I dont know who would waste the energy attacking or defending it NoOneMan Dec 2013 #26
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