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PamW

(1,825 posts)
40. OH REALLY?????
Wed Dec 4, 2013, 11:36 AM
Dec 2013

bananas,

When did the watch marketers on Madison Avenue get the gig for defining the meaning of "resistant" when it comes to nuclear non-proliferation?

Don't you really love this "logic"?

The watch manufacturers essentially "hedge" their claims, as many businesses do in our overly litigious society; against the possibility that someone will put on one of their watches and dive to some great depth. So instead of saying "water proof"; they say "water resistant".

Now the anti-nukes find it CONVENIENT to dredge up this "definition".

By what "logic" has it been mandated that the usage of the word "resistant" in the nuclear non-proliferation community has to adhere to the "standards" set by 1960s TV marketing commercials for Timex watches?

I think we've plumbed new depths of ABSURDITY.

How is the link provided in ANY WAY RELEVANT to the issue of nuclear non-proliferation?

If one is willing to be open minded; it is really quite easy to explain.

The Manhattan Project developed 2 basic designs for nuclear weapons; "gun-assembled" ( Little Boy / Hiroshima ) and "implosion" ( Fat Man / Nagasaki )

Because of effects of the isotope Plutonium-240 which is present in even "weapons-grade" Plutonium from Hanford; the "gun assembled" method can NOT be used when Plutonium, even weapons grade is slated as the bomb fuel:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapon_design

Gun assembly: one piece of fissile uranium is fired at a fissile uranium target at the end of the weapon, similar to firing a bullet down a gun barrel, achieving critical mass when combined.
Implosion: a fissile mass of either material (U-235, Pu-239, or a combination) is surrounded by high explosives that compress the mass, resulting in criticality.

The implosion method can use either uranium or plutonium as fuel. The gun method only uses uranium. Plutonium is considered impractical for the gun method because of early triggering due to Pu-240 contamination and due to its time constant for prompt critical fission being much shorter than that of U-235.

Plutonium can be used with the implosion system because as its developer Manhattan Project scientist Seth Neddermeyer put it; the implosion system assembles in 3 dimensions while the gun assembly system only assembles in 1 dimension ( along the gun barrel ). Therefore, the implosion system is about 3 times faster in assembly.

However, what happens if the amount of Pu-240 contamination is increased? The effects of Pu-240 contamination increase with the percentage of Pu-240 until the effect is large enough that even the implosion system can't compensate.

The IFR was designed to optimize the burning of Pu-239 which is the isotope that is bomb fuel; and with the presence of Pu-240 and other actinides ( see the paper by Professor Benoit Forget of MIT referenced herein ); the effects of Pu-240 and other actinides make even implosion type nuclear weapons INOPERABLE with bomb fuel with the level of actinide contamination found in spent IFR fuel.

The IFR reactor was specifically designed with that behaviour in mind; in order to forestall using spent IFR fuel as nuclear weapons fuel. Argonne National Lab reactor designers succeeded in achieving that design goal.

Again, the fact that IFR fuel can NOT be used as nuclear weapons fuel was certified to the US Congress in a report issued 2 decades ago when the US Congress was debating the continued funding of the project. That report was authored by scientists at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory. Those scientists are the true experts in nuclear weapons design, since they designed the nuclear weapons in the USA's own nuclear stockpile.

I can't understand why the anti-nukes want to be "science deniers"; in every way the kindred spirits of "climate deniers"; and they have now resorted to the absurdity of claiming that the meaning of words used in the nuclear non-proliferation community are some how to be constrained in usage by how those same words were used in marketing watches on TV.

I guess when all the SCIENCE and FACTS are against you; those are the levels to which some will stoop.

If I were on the wrong side of the FACTS; I'd rather say NOTHING; than promulgate NONSENSE which would impugn my credibility.

The good thing about science is that it is true, whether or not you believe in it.
--Neil deGrasse Tyson

PamW

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Yes, the EIA publish data on expected energy future use AND all sources of energy. happyslug Nov 2013 #1
That tells you nothing of the sort kristopher Nov 2013 #2
Lack of understanding of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics... PamW Nov 2013 #11
Nope kristopher Nov 2013 #13
100% WRONG AGAIN as always!! PamW Nov 2013 #15
This message was self-deleted by its author kristopher Nov 2013 #22
It was EXACTLY the level of journalistic quality that I would have expected from "The Nation". caraher Nov 2013 #3
I don't have a favorite political publication PamW Nov 2013 #7
Well, I think we all get that The Nation is not a technical journal caraher Nov 2013 #17
It's STILL an ERROR PamW Nov 2013 #18
Kerry didn't lie, in fact he was validated by MIT a decade later bananas Nov 2013 #4
More typical anti-nuke "logic" PamW Nov 2013 #8
There are four primary problem area with nuclear technology (not counting social and systems issues) kristopher Nov 2013 #9
We can address those... PamW Nov 2013 #20
"The MIT study chooses "once through" over closed due to cost." - Nope. kristopher Nov 2013 #21
100% WRONG!! PamW Dec 2013 #25
You're morphing your previous failure into yet another failed argument kristopher Dec 2013 #27
100% WRONG as ALWAYS!! PamW Dec 2013 #29
MIT study on Proliferation Resistant Fast Reactor PamW Dec 2013 #30
I'm sure NNSA and MIT didn't have that data. kristopher Dec 2013 #31
I'm SURE NNSA and MIT had that data PamW Dec 2013 #32
The conclusions of both MIT and NNSA refute your claims. kristopher Dec 2013 #33
NOT AT ALL PamW Dec 2013 #34
You've been completely and absolutely refuted kristopher Dec 2013 #35
Non-scientist kristopher is 100% WRONG AGAIN PamW Dec 2013 #36
A "Proliferation Resistant" Reactor is like a "Water Resistant" Watch bananas Dec 2013 #39
OH REALLY????? PamW Dec 2013 #40
PamW wrote: "Iran is seeking NOT a plutonium bomb, but a uranium bomb." bananas Nov 2013 #5
Do you doubt it? PamW Nov 2013 #10
What about the National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA)? kristopher Nov 2013 #14
You are arguing with the SCIENTISTS!!! PamW Nov 2013 #16
No, I'm quoting the scientists kristopher Nov 2013 #19
WRONG!!! PamW Nov 2013 #23
No, it isn't wrong. kristopher Nov 2013 #24
100% WRONG as ALWAYS!! PamW Dec 2013 #28
DOE: "Virtually any combination of plutonium isotopes...can be used to make a nuclear weapon." bananas Nov 2013 #6
Actualy; the above is NOT true. PamW Nov 2013 #12
No, PamW; Richard Garwin, John Holdren, and President Obama all know you're wrong. bananas Dec 2013 #37
Its a fools errand madokie Dec 2013 #38
BALONEY!!! PamW Dec 2013 #41
No, Pamw, you're wrong again. bananas Dec 2013 #42
Sorry... once again, you've cited something that you simply don't understand. FBaggins Dec 2013 #43
ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!! PamW Dec 2013 #44
Sorry... once again, you've corrected someone when it's you that's wrong kristopher Dec 2013 #46
100% WRONG!! AGAIN!! PamW Dec 2013 #48
I can read and Selden's language is unambiguous kristopher Dec 2013 #49
WRONG AGAIN!! PamW Dec 2013 #50
Ah... but not if you read without understanding. FBaggins Dec 2013 #56
CORRECT!!! PamW Dec 2013 #62
bananas and kristopher certainly win on source credibility here caraher Dec 2013 #51
NOPE!! They do NOT!! PamW Dec 2013 #52
Well, it seems you are a liar, traitor or a fool - your choice caraher Dec 2013 #53
NOPE!!! PamW Dec 2013 #55
Nope. FBaggins Dec 2013 #54
EXCELLENT!!! PamW Dec 2013 #58
"If you have any type of plutonium in sufficient quantities you can make a bomb." Selden 2009 kristopher Dec 2013 #59
An we've both explained to you what that means. FBaggins Dec 2013 #60
A clear example of how he was being SLOPPY!!! PamW Dec 2013 #61
More citations on the point of plutonium for weapons kristopher Dec 2013 #63
Non-scientist kristopher MISSES the implicit assumption PamW Dec 2013 #64
"what comes out of an Integral Fast Reactor" kristopher Dec 2013 #65
Yes - I know Harold... PamW Dec 2013 #66
And that brings us full circle kristopher Dec 2013 #67
100% WRONG!! AGAIN!! PamW Dec 2013 #68
Oh look - George Stanford says it TWICE in that interview! bananas Dec 2013 #69
bananas LITANY of ERRORS!! PamW Dec 2013 #70
Evidently bananas does NOT understand... PamW Dec 2013 #71
What's happened to HONESTY!!! PamW Dec 2013 #45
Yes, what happened to honesty? kristopher Dec 2013 #47
Pam - don't worry about him FreakinDJ Dec 2013 #57
The movie was such a blatant farce, I dont know who would waste the energy attacking or defending it NoOneMan Dec 2013 #26
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