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kristopher

(29,798 posts)
44. Manual of Naval Preventive Medicine: Chapter 6 Water Supply Afloat
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 04:06 AM
Dec 2013
http://www.public.navy.mil/navsafecen/Documents/afloat/Surface/Md_Hz/P50106.pdf

First let me say that the discussion about water treatment, while relevant, is only a small part of the picture.

The (1990) manual points out many opportunities for bacterial contamination exist throughout the desalinization and distribution process. It doesn't discuss radiological contaminants, so it is unknown whether the procedures detailed are adequate for that problem.

It also states the uses for non-potable water, providing another route of possible contamination.

6. Seawater (non-potable) is used aboard ships in the fire mains and for general sanitary purposes. Since conservation of potable water is a constant requirement, it is impractical to provide potable water for all purposes. Therefore, it is necessary to use sea water under certain controlled circumstances, such as: flushing weather decks, water closets, urinals and garbage chutes; decontamination showers; and laundering. Water in harbors or off-shore from habitations and when operating in fleet strength must be considered polluted and unfit for uses other than in fire and flushing systems and must not be used for other purposes. If it is necessary in an emergency situation to produce water from contaminated sources, the Medical Department must insure that increased surveillance of the system is instituted.


To me, post 11 above is most telling.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/112759940#post11

The description of exposure to airborne fallout is unmistakable; as is the lack of a regime for protection and decontamination for those exposed.

The statement describes a clear route for ingestion/inhalation of fallout. That would be extant both during outdoor activities as well as continued exposure to fallout carried by the hair and clothing. Unless the interior of the ship was sealed and operating on purified air before exposure began, it too was contaminated, including living quarters, mess areas, recreational areas and work stations. It isn't that difficult to protect against fallout if you are ready for it and know it is coming, but if you walk into a situation like this blindly all of that is irrelevant.

Many moons ago before the Cold War ended, recurrent training in decontamination procedures was a standard part of military training designed for the laughable goal of surviving a nuclear exchange; I was in charge of a team and its training for a couple of years. Respirators and protective clothing, sealed living quarters working and food prep areas as well as their desalinated water supplies are all relevant and important. I definitely wouldn't want to be these guys if they were in the path of a fallout cloud and were not taking explicit precautions to deal with it.

The real question here is why, if they were in a fallout cloud (and that doesn't seem to be disputed since the Captain of the ship acknowledged it), didn't they know it was there? The answer is we don't know at this point.

We do know, however, that the crew wasn't following decontamination protocols if the description of the retrieval of the flag is accurate. And if they were as blind to the problem as that indicates, then the problem was widespread.

Why did that happen? Well that problem could have its origins in the behavior of the Japanese. They had a system (called SPEEDI wasn't it?) for tracking the route of releases, but didn't warn the Japanese public that fallout was headed their way. It seems extremely plausible, therefore, that the US Navy was similarly kept in the dark and entered the area thinking there wasn't a need at that location to deploy monitoring equipment.

I hope this case is well covered in public media; I'd really like to know what happened.

See also: Onboard systems don't always provide clean, safe water
Sep 23, 2010 CAPT. KELLY SWEENEY
http://www.professionalmariner.com/December-January-2010/Onboard-systems-don-226-128-153t-always-provide-clean-safe-water/

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

OMG. Th1onein Dec 2013 #1
This is horrible.. samrock Dec 2013 #2
Wouldn't a nuclear powered aircraft carrier have radiation monitors... Make7 Dec 2013 #3
Of course FBaggins Dec 2013 #5
You would think that they would... Blanks Dec 2013 #6
Not everyone wears a TLD badge on board a carrier MyNameGoesHere Dec 2013 #17
Distillation should have solved the problem PamW Dec 2013 #23
I assumed that they didn't remove all particles. Blanks Dec 2013 #24
Apparently the USS Ronald Reagan doesn't use distillation, it uses reverse osmosis bananas Dec 2013 #25
Reversed osmosis is a preferred method for removing radioactive material from drinking water idwiyo Dec 2013 #26
It's not 100% effective, radioactive contaminants will still get through bananas Dec 2013 #37
Which makes the timeline all the more suspicious NickB79 Dec 2013 #39
All that is needed now is some idea what level of radioactivity was present in sea water, idwiyo Dec 2013 #42
EXACTLY!!! PamW Dec 2013 #46
What about the air they were breathing and the water they were immersed in? kristopher Dec 2013 #56
If you re-read this particular thread again, you might notice it does not discuss idwiyo Dec 2013 #59
The water filtering system is still a red herring kristopher Dec 2013 #62
Close... but no cigar. FBaggins Dec 2013 #69
Another Baggins pronuclear fantasy kristopher Dec 2013 #73
Was there anything in there that was even a little on-topic? FBaggins Dec 2013 #76
Yes, it is character assassination. kristopher Dec 2013 #78
Dead wrong. FBaggins Dec 2013 #79
Then you have evidence. Produce it. kristopher Dec 2013 #81
See 82. FBaggins Dec 2013 #83
I wonder how long it would take... Blanks Dec 2013 #34
The sailors were told to stop using desalinated water because it was contaminated bananas Dec 2013 #89
That's how the sailors know they were exposed to radiation bananas Dec 2013 #11
It sounds like he ate before washing his hands. kristopher Dec 2013 #19
thanks for this link, I'm a little uneasy about sharing the turner news network with anybody.. Voice for Peace Dec 2013 #29
Some older links, if you haven't seen them. bananas Dec 2013 #31
The non-ruling class are expendable. We're pawns in the elites' games. nt valerief Dec 2013 #4
It seems like the link is broken. FarPoint Dec 2013 #7
Here's a different link bananas Dec 2013 #8
Partial transcript bananas Dec 2013 #9
It's working for me. kristopher Dec 2013 #10
The link in the OP works for me. nt bananas Dec 2013 #12
Even if the link doesn't work... Blanks Dec 2013 #22
FYI FarPoint Dec 2013 #32
Use the nuclear-news.net link bananas Dec 2013 #36
Done. FarPoint Dec 2013 #38
It's been picked up by Al Jazeera bananas Dec 2013 #61
New info from Al Jazeera - several sailors don't have their participation in their medical records bananas Dec 2013 #72
I've got it posted on my Facebook wall... FarPoint Dec 2013 #86
"it’s only been 3 years since they went in." NickB79 Dec 2013 #13
Dubious Source ninjanurse Dec 2013 #14
I think the original source is in post #8, which is not a right-wing source. bananas Dec 2013 #21
Why do soo many people here penndragon69 Dec 2013 #15
A number of nuclear energy proponents frequent this space kristopher Dec 2013 #20
Because the science doesn't seem to support it NickB79 Dec 2013 #40
Fifty-one out of 5680? jmowreader Dec 2013 #16
Believe it or not MyNameGoesHere Dec 2013 #18
whoever is keeping everything clean, or working on maintenance, Voice for Peace Dec 2013 #28
Yes. And they been doing it for almost 100 years now MyNameGoesHere Dec 2013 #33
yah, personally I would expect it to be the radiation. Voice for Peace Dec 2013 #35
Yet they missed a faulty water purification system? NickB79 Dec 2013 #41
I am sure those systems are automated MyNameGoesHere Dec 2013 #43
Mother Nature's Radioactivity PamW Dec 2013 #45
Ha MyNameGoesHere Dec 2013 #47
Take another look at the image you posted FBaggins Dec 2013 #48
I didn't say i thought or say it was anything. MyNameGoesHere Dec 2013 #49
I am very curious why you posted some "scary" looking chart instead of idwiyo Dec 2013 #51
Just to illustrate your point: idwiyo Dec 2013 #52
Is anybody here knowledgeable about the Turner Radio Network? Voice for Peace Dec 2013 #27
I am not surprised. Sad, but not surprised. nt MADem Dec 2013 #30
Manual of Naval Preventive Medicine: Chapter 6 Water Supply Afloat kristopher Dec 2013 #44
Wow. And I assume therefore that everyone in Japan has brain tumors, luekemia and... NNadir Dec 2013 #54
I suppose you have me there... kristopher Dec 2013 #55
Really? Besides being an expert on lawyered up fantasy epidemiology... NNadir Dec 2013 #57
Deploying electric vehicles is a key element in reducing carbon emissions. kristopher Dec 2013 #58
Really? Climate change is all about cars for billionaires and millionaires? NNadir Dec 2013 #85
Please delete the holocaust denying/white nationalist link in the OP and use another muriel_volestrangler Dec 2013 #50
+1. n/t Laelth Dec 2013 #53
+2 Thank you. Didn't bother to even look at this link, but after seeing your post I did. idwiyo Dec 2013 #60
The story is accurate kristopher Dec 2013 #63
Great, delete that despicable link and replace it with a legitimate source. idwiyo Dec 2013 #64
Despicable link? kristopher Dec 2013 #65
Please, do elaborate about my efforts to "misdirect readers ". Explanation about efficency of RO idwiyo Dec 2013 #66
You're right. kristopher Dec 2013 #67
Accepted :) Was just really surprised. We are all human, and I get very passionate too idwiyo Dec 2013 #68
I already have muriel_volestrangler Dec 2013 #70
Exactly some people, including me, haven't read it. kristopher Dec 2013 #74
Depends on what you're calling "the story". FBaggins Dec 2013 #71
You are in no position to make that declaration. kristopher Dec 2013 #75
Actually... I am. FBaggins Dec 2013 #77
And I spent 8 years in command and control kristopher Dec 2013 #80
I have plenty of evidence... and I pointed you at it. FBaggins Dec 2013 #82
Getting washed to remove radioactive contamination. kristopher Dec 2013 #84
Don't you think you would have more credibility... FBaggins Dec 2013 #87
100% WRONG!! AGAIN!! PamW Dec 2013 #88
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