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BlueStreak

(8,377 posts)
2. Just to be clear, this is only "zero emissions" if the hydrogen is produced
Tue Jan 7, 2014, 07:35 PM
Jan 2014

from excess energy that would otherwise be lost from solar and wind farms.

This Toyota announcement is fantastic news, because it means that a solid group of companies, including the leading car company, have found a path to make fuel cells economical. This is everything that electric cars never could be. Basically: fast refuel time and 300 mile range. The fueling infrastructure is a problem today, but that is equally true of EVs. If they have really mastered the price point, this will for a critical mass of hydrogen infrastructure.

One of the problems with wind and solar power is that when they generate power, it is really cheap (practically free from a variable cost standpoint), but the power is not dependable. Therefore, you need one or the following: a) a super-scale storage system that doesn't really exist today, b) excess capacity that you are willing to just throw away (i.e. idling turbines when there isn't enough demand for electricity, or c) political arrangements where oil/gas power plants are willing to go radically up and down to accommodate the fluctuations of solar/wind.

None of those three is an attractive solution today. But installing surplus wind/solar capacity is, if you also build out the technology to use the excess energy to create hydrogen and store it for vehicle use.

It seems to me this is the future. We won't be there in 2015 or even 2020. But countries like Germany and Spain are already pretty far down that path, and the emergence of fuel cells just adds to that momentum.

I think this is really exciting. I didn't really expect to see consumer sales of FCVs until 2020 or later.

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So Is G.W.Bush Going To Be Proved Right..... global1 Jan 2014 #1
Sales of plug in hybrid and battery electric drive autos are ramping up rapidly. kristopher Jan 2014 #4
Just to be clear, this is only "zero emissions" if the hydrogen is produced BlueStreak Jan 2014 #2
Economical? caraher Jan 2014 #19
They wouldn't be doing this if the pricing didn't work with volume BlueStreak Jan 2014 #20
Well, it takes energy to make Hydrogen. longship Jan 2014 #3
Entropy is a bitch, ... CRH Jan 2014 #8
Hydrogen could be very useful as an energy storage medium. longship Jan 2014 #9
Yes, it should be thought of as a battery, ... CRH Jan 2014 #11
Still, a long way to go jakeXT Jan 2014 #12
Yes a long way to go indeed, ... CRH Jan 2014 #13
That "hydrogen sponge" concept is very interesting BlueStreak Jan 2014 #14
Its relative inefficiency is very important. kristopher Jan 2014 #15
Of course, the scenario is much more complex. longship Jan 2014 #16
Have you heard of P2G? kristopher Jan 2014 #17
Precisely the tech advancements which will bring this home. longship Jan 2014 #18
So cars are going from releasing carbon monoxide to mindwalker_i Jan 2014 #5
In those temperatures .... jakeXT Jan 2014 #6
Could be slick, when the Rossby waves get stalled. … n/t CRH Jan 2014 #10
I caught my wife just before she took a drink from a bottle that has some of that in it. kristopher Jan 2014 #7
If the hydrogen thing doesn't work out... hunter Jan 2014 #21
...and how many hydrogen filling stations are there? tinrobot Jan 2014 #22
how much platinum is needed per car?...nt quadrature Jan 2014 #23
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