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kristopher

(29,798 posts)
23. I understand your perspective and all of the information you've brought in.
Sat Mar 1, 2014, 03:50 PM
Mar 2014

My point, however, already considered all of that. The situation can be summed up in this way:
- There are some REEs that are valuable to the profitability of some designs.

- It isn't an industry wide issue and the industry would proceed apace if there were No REEs.

- The crux of the matter is that we entered/are/will in be a market induced shortage caused by a surge in demand that exceeded the capacity of the refining facilities that were in service.

- Just as supply/demand dynamics created a resource bottleneck, it will alleviate it.

- China's prior entry into that market led to price declines that caused the shut down of most of the rest of the REE refining facilities in the world.

- This put China (which was growing its wind industry for global competition) in the position of being able to throttle development of more competitive foreign technologies by limiting their access to the relevant REEs. It also led to a price spike in REEs that has prompted consideration of reopening refining facilities outside of China.

- The competitive edge afforded by REEs plus their shortage has already produced alternative approaches to achieving the same improvements that REEs can be used for.

- At no point in time, ever, was the progress of renewable energy writ large in any kind of jeopardy whatsoever.

- However, there was a flood of articles that tried to instill in public consciousness exactly the idea that wind and solar can't meet global energy demand because there was some sort of rare material required.

You, inadvertently I'm sure, were participating in that when you included it as a caveat about wind and solar:

"Rare earth metals creates another interesting dynamic, politically and economically. Recycling will only go so far. For solar and wind to carry the bulk of energy transformation, at projected demand, the acquisition of rare earth metals will certainly be tested."


You can certainly reframe that by pointing to the existence of a broader discussion on the topic, but it's pretty evident by the juxtaposition of remark to the content of the OP that you were expressing a belief about the inadequacy of wind and solar and were not making a comment on the above described market dynamics of rare earth elements.

The reason you possess such a belief is almost certainly the result of the efforts of the nuclear industry's crusade against renewable energy because they are they group that has been promoting that specific misconception.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

it must, so it will Voice for Peace Feb 2014 #1
Not necessarily. GliderGuider Feb 2014 #5
I'm sticking with hope. Voice for Peace Feb 2014 #19
It's not over till the fat lady sings, as they say. nt GliderGuider Feb 2014 #20
The BAU mindset is like ketchup cprise Feb 2014 #2
We have to keep demanding a change. nt WhiteTara Feb 2014 #3
It continues to bug me.... phantom power Feb 2014 #4
Why couldn't demand be adapted pscot Feb 2014 #6
sure, the "power-down" scenario is always out there phantom power Feb 2014 #7
I'm sure we could stand just a tiny bit pscot Feb 2014 #9
We powered down 50 years ago, in a way FogerRox Mar 2014 #30
That is always an integral part of planning for a distributed, renewable energy system kristopher Feb 2014 #10
You're significantly misstating the findings of the study; which is one of probably hundreds... kristopher Feb 2014 #11
Here is one for China kristopher Feb 2014 #13
NREL Renewables Futures Study kristopher Feb 2014 #14
If you look at real world examples Yo_Mama Mar 2014 #26
The challenges will be many, ... CRH Feb 2014 #8
In the large picture resource constraints affecting renewable rollout are nil. kristopher Feb 2014 #12
you see nuclear phantoms, where there are none. n/t CRH Feb 2014 #18
Where do you think an incorrect argument like that originates? kristopher Feb 2014 #21
Not sure it is an incorrect argument, many others are concerned, ... CRH Mar 2014 #22
I understand your perspective and all of the information you've brought in. kristopher Mar 2014 #23
You are still not representing what I said accurately, ... CRH Mar 2014 #24
Really? kristopher Mar 2014 #25
The real significance of this study isn't the findings - it is who is publishing those findings kristopher Feb 2014 #15
“Integration is not simply about adding wind and solar on top of ‘business as usual,” NickB79 Feb 2014 #16
You've been seeing it... kristopher Feb 2014 #17
This seems a bit of a distortion Yo_Mama Mar 2014 #27
How so? kristopher Mar 2014 #28
An excerpt from the Executive Summary: GliderGuider Mar 2014 #29
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Environment & Energy»IEA says wind and solar c...»Reply #23