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GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
11. It's a question of system boundaries.
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 08:48 PM
Aug 2014

I view global civilization as my top-level system of interest. Within that system are many components, some of which are individual nations. A principle of self-organizing or "autopoietic" systems (including social systems like nations or civilization as a whole) is that a change in one component doesn't invalidate the system structure. Similarly, a change in the behaviour of one component doesn't necessarily imply a possibility for a similar overall system-level change.

You might want to try reading Humberto Maturana and Francisco Varela's work on autopoeisis and structural coupling, or perhaps Fritjof Capra's latest book "The Systems View of Life". Seeing the world through a system science lens gives quite an interesting view. This is where my pursuit of human behavioral explanations in terms of thermodynamics, evolutionary psychology and cybernetics has led me.

It's hardly fatalistic to recognize that many aspects of a system's behavior are constrained by its current structure (one of Maturana and Varela's observations). There is still plenty of significant work to be done at smaller scales - like saving the Monarchs, building communities, doing engineering work, raising children, gardening, painting, writing - or just thinking about things. It doesn't matter if we can save the world or not. There are plenty of other meaningful things to do in the interim, just as we've always done - even in the face of the certain knowledge of our own personal deaths.

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Energetic Limits to Economic Growth [View all] GliderGuider Aug 2014 OP
Kick.... daleanime Aug 2014 #1
He's wrong. Benton D Struckcheon Aug 2014 #2
What about the crux of Garrett's argument? GliderGuider Aug 2014 #3
The crux of his and your argument is fatalism in re CO2. Benton D Struckcheon Aug 2014 #8
It's a question of system boundaries. GliderGuider Aug 2014 #11
Funny, you sound very similar to another poster that used to be on EE a lot NickB79 Aug 2014 #4
Jevons is a favourite whipping-boy GliderGuider Aug 2014 #6
"We are self-sufficient in food." NickB79 Aug 2014 #5
If you'd bother to actually read what I wrote, Benton D Struckcheon Aug 2014 #7
Chinese exports to the USA GliderGuider Aug 2014 #9
One more time, Benton D Struckcheon Aug 2014 #10
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Environment & Energy»Energetic Limits to Econo...»Reply #11