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Environment & Energy

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caraher

(6,356 posts)
Sun Sep 28, 2014, 10:15 AM Sep 2014

Tesla Trumps Toyota: Why Hydrogen Cars Can’t Compete With Pure Electric Cars [View all]

Joe Romm updated his critique of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles in a recent multi-part blog post. The problem with pushing for FCEVs now is that it is a gross misallocation of resources that extends, rather then curtails, use of fossil fuels in transportation. Yes, a few solar-powered hydrogen filling stations exist to serve a tiny number of vehicles - I don't think anyone really needs a proof-of-principle to know this is technically possible on a small scale if money is no object.

But realistically, if FCEVs are to exist on a large scale anytime soon, they will run, for many years, primarily on hydrogen extracted from natural gas - and that is a losing proposition. Note that only one FCV offers even a modest improvement over a Prius when it comes to reducing greenhouse gas emissions - most are demonstrably worse:



As Romm notes,

The graph shows high-polluting cars on the left, and low-polluting cars on the right. And it’s plain to see that hydrogen FCV vehicles group to the left, while EVs group to the right. It’s actually worse than that because Cox does not appear to have included the impact of the recent measurements and calculations of methane leakage from methane production, which are so severe they undermine the case for replacing coal-fired power plants with natural gas fired power plants.


Even if we look at what kind of transportation we want in 20 years, hydrogen still looks like a bad bet, because it is wasteful. Romm quotes some numbers; even that assessment of the efficiency of the energy conversions involved for hydrogen are a factor of 2 too low, using zero-emissions electricity to power FCEVs is throwing clean energy away:

The entire process of electrolysis, transportation, pumping and fuel-cell conversion would leave only about 20 to 25 percent of the original zero-carbon electricity to drive the motor. In a plug-in hybrid, the process of electricity transmission, charging an onboard battery and discharging the battery would leave 75 to 80 percent of the original electricity to drive the motor. Thus, a plug-in should be able to travel three to four times farther on a kilowatt-hour of renewable electricity than a hydrogen fuel-cell vehicle could.


Or shown graphically...



As I've said before, I do think fuel cell vehicles may have some niche uses, and should be developed. But for most transportation purposes, they're at best a distraction and at worst prolong the era of fossil-fuel dominance. If we get to the point where we have so much zero-emission electricity that we hardly know what to do with it, the energy efficiency disadvantages won't matter so much. We are at best decades from this being the case, and more likely we will never find ourselves in that kind of energy world.
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Chevy Spark Is Unobtainable In Most Of The US cantbeserious Sep 2014 #1
As are many of the vehicles on that list caraher Sep 2014 #2
Message deleted by DU the Administrators nationalize the fed Sep 2014 #3
What is the lifetime of any car? caraher Sep 2014 #6
I felt compelled to check the sources for some of those charts. "Well to Wheel" efficiency my ass. NYC_SKP Sep 2014 #16
Automobile culture needs to die. hunter Sep 2014 #4
I agree caraher Sep 2014 #5
'Jet Setters' need to be eliminated first. quadrature Sep 2014 #9
If we don't solve this problem, Mother Nature will in her billions of years, very old ways. hunter Sep 2014 #10
A self-driving car to pick you up? GeorgeGist Sep 2014 #11
I'm not thinking something like a New York Taxi driven by a robot... hunter Sep 2014 #12
FCEVs are an attempt to maintain a fueling infrastructure stranglehold. NYC_SKP Sep 2014 #7
Honda proves you wrong nationalize the fed Sep 2014 #13
How much for a home filling system? What's the efficiency loss versus EVs? NYC_SKP Sep 2014 #14
Bernie Sanders Julian_Cox May 2015 #17
Welcome to DU gopiscrap May 2015 #18
Excellent post! notemason May 2015 #19
I'm not Elon Musk Julian_Cox May 2015 #21
But we can make Hydrogen from the Bullshit! mackdaddy May 2015 #20
The infrastructure growth requirements are daunting for hydrogen caraher Sep 2014 #8
I agree. There's a place in the energy world for Hydrogen, but it's not in passenger vehicles. NYC_SKP Sep 2014 #15
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