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caraher

(6,356 posts)
6. What is the lifetime of any car?
Sun Sep 28, 2014, 06:40 PM
Sep 2014

Sure, batteries don't last forever. It does make perfect sense to consider the environmental costs of batteries. The comparison should be made considering also the costs in time and diverted resources of money and teams of uber-smart engineers to a technology that will not be deployed on a large scale anywhere near as quickly as BEVs could be, when replacing the fossil fuel infrastructure should be a top priority. Fuel cell vehicles on a small scale are irrelevant. On a large scale, they'll create more short-term demand for hydrogen, which in the real world would come almost entirely from fossil fuel sources.

I'd guess Romm quotes Cox because he thinks Cox summed up the case well. Perhaps Cox is a sleazy businessman with a conflict of interest, but the analysis checks out. Certainly all the uber-smart engineers working on hydrogen have as much skin in the game as someone making lithium batteries.

It's certainly well-known that BEVs today use all kinds of "dirty" energy. So would fuel cell vehicles if they existed at a scale that represented a significant portion of transport.

An apples-to-apples comparison could involve BEVs with clean electricity against fuel cell vehicles with clean energy; BEVs are superior on efficiency. Another could involve comparing BEVs with today's electricity sources with fuel cell vehicles using today's hydrogen sources. Exactly how well BEVs fare depends on where you're charging them, but in this case, they still outstrip fuel cell vehicles not yet available on any significant scale - and the latter, with their support infrastructure yet to be built, still don't outperform available technology like gas-powered hybrids.

A skewed comparison pits BEVs powered with a crappy fuel mix against fuel cell vehicles powered fueled by solar panels and sewage. That's the one comparison fuel cell vehicles win consistently, and its the one you seem to insist upon. But it's intrinsically slanted because BEVs could use the same energy sources.

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Chevy Spark Is Unobtainable In Most Of The US cantbeserious Sep 2014 #1
As are many of the vehicles on that list caraher Sep 2014 #2
Message deleted by DU the Administrators nationalize the fed Sep 2014 #3
What is the lifetime of any car? caraher Sep 2014 #6
I felt compelled to check the sources for some of those charts. "Well to Wheel" efficiency my ass. NYC_SKP Sep 2014 #16
Automobile culture needs to die. hunter Sep 2014 #4
I agree caraher Sep 2014 #5
'Jet Setters' need to be eliminated first. quadrature Sep 2014 #9
If we don't solve this problem, Mother Nature will in her billions of years, very old ways. hunter Sep 2014 #10
A self-driving car to pick you up? GeorgeGist Sep 2014 #11
I'm not thinking something like a New York Taxi driven by a robot... hunter Sep 2014 #12
FCEVs are an attempt to maintain a fueling infrastructure stranglehold. NYC_SKP Sep 2014 #7
Honda proves you wrong nationalize the fed Sep 2014 #13
How much for a home filling system? What's the efficiency loss versus EVs? NYC_SKP Sep 2014 #14
Bernie Sanders Julian_Cox May 2015 #17
Welcome to DU gopiscrap May 2015 #18
Excellent post! notemason May 2015 #19
I'm not Elon Musk Julian_Cox May 2015 #21
But we can make Hydrogen from the Bullshit! mackdaddy May 2015 #20
The infrastructure growth requirements are daunting for hydrogen caraher Sep 2014 #8
I agree. There's a place in the energy world for Hydrogen, but it's not in passenger vehicles. NYC_SKP Sep 2014 #15
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