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Environment & Energy
In reply to the discussion: More than 68% of New European Electricity Capacity Came From Wind and Solar in 2011 [View all]kristopher
(29,798 posts)48. I already replied to your quesiton
You:
Now tell me how *increasing* the contribution of coal and *increasing* the contribution
of gas is going to achieve #5.
of gas is going to achieve #5.
I already wrote:
The Rio Earth Summit was held in 1992 and marks the real beginning of our global effort to turn the tide of fossil fuel use. It took until 1994 to craft an international agreement to deal with the problem, and another 3 years to shape and pass a treaty binding nations to the agreement. It wasn't until 2005 that the treaty went into force.
Your numbers reflect the inertia of where we are coming from. The graph in the OP reflects where we are going - which is precisely why it is significant. The numbers for new coal capacity have been steadily declining both in the EU and the US. In fact, in the US coal's share of the electrical services market has declined 25% between 2005 and 2010. Sure, most of that is due to natural gas, but as has been repeatedly shown, that is in conjunction with a dramatic increase in the manufacturing and supply chain infrastructure for renewables and a steadily increasing rate of deployment for those technologies.
Your numbers reflect the inertia of where we are coming from. The graph in the OP reflects where we are going - which is precisely why it is significant. The numbers for new coal capacity have been steadily declining both in the EU and the US. In fact, in the US coal's share of the electrical services market has declined 25% between 2005 and 2010. Sure, most of that is due to natural gas, but as has been repeatedly shown, that is in conjunction with a dramatic increase in the manufacturing and supply chain infrastructure for renewables and a steadily increasing rate of deployment for those technologies.
You:
I have repeatedly made honest arguments only to have them ignored & deflected by rubbish about "nuclear support".
Me:
The numbers for new coal capacity have been steadily declining both in the EU and the US. In fact, in the US coal's share of the electrical services market has declined 25% between 2005 and 2010. Sure, most of that is due to natural gas, but as has been repeatedly shown, that is in conjunction with a dramatic increase in the manufacturing and supply chain infrastructure for renewables and a steadily increasing rate of deployment for those technologies.
In other words your arguments are not as honest as you claim...
ETA: Now, why don't you share with us how nuclear could work to oust fossil fuels. You say you no longer support nuclear, fine. But you have supported it for many years and I presume that support included a vision of how we used building more nuclear to get to a carbon free world. Using that deep body of experience and knowledge, explain what the basis of your view was.
With renewables it is the zero-fuel cost coupled with a small per-unit capital cost.
What economic carrots and sticks gets nuclear plants built in places that shut down coal plants?
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More than 68% of New European Electricity Capacity Came From Wind and Solar in 2011 [View all]
kristopher
Feb 2012
OP
The determinant is the operational characteristic within a generation and delivery system.
kristopher
Feb 2012
#6
If "fracking is severely curtailed" then I don't see much NG for electrical generation.
joshcryer
Feb 2012
#36
I want data, I want to see that it's actually being pursued, not fantasy plans that...
joshcryer
Feb 2012
#40
I did. I showed that greenwashing natural gas is not going to transition us away from fossil fuels.
joshcryer
Feb 2012
#52
Fracking is absolutely necessary to "meet the needs we might have during a transition."
joshcryer
Feb 2012
#39
Lots of sniping and ranting; absolutely devoid of substance related to the topic of transition
kristopher
Feb 2012
#42
I already told you, we don't. Convince me we do. We don't. The evidience is we don't. I gave it.
joshcryer
Feb 2012
#49
The chart is not flawed, the chart is specific. The EU and US will reduce coal consumption.
joshcryer
Feb 2012
#60
My interpretation of data is perfectly fine, as you've provided no evidence I am wrong.
joshcryer
Feb 2012
#63
Because he has a fantasy solution that isn't reflected in any real world trajectory.
joshcryer
Feb 2012
#68
Not at all, I think the magical robot factories are just as useful as any other "future planning"...
joshcryer
Feb 2012
#80
Erm, right wing garbage. Making people pay externalized costs is not a subsidy.
joshcryer
Feb 2012
#93
Uh, you do realize those electronics are so cheap because they're built in unregulated sectors...
joshcryer
Feb 2012
#86
Are you seriously saying that a snapshot of today supports your assertions about the future?
kristopher
Feb 2012
#91
Yes, because the data I provided is a "snapshot of today," it's not years of trending.
joshcryer
Feb 2012
#92
Explain how nuclear power enables a transition to a noncoarbon energy infrastructure.
kristopher
Feb 2012
#18
Why? As stated many times before, humans are not to be trusted with nuclear power.
Nihil
Feb 2012
#24
In other words you can't answer the question without showing you are being misleading.
kristopher
Feb 2012
#26
I'm not the one who is dodging the facts by constantly raising the "nuclear" red herring.
Nihil
Feb 2012
#47
You seem to be laboring under the impression that you're the only one being coherent here
XemaSab
Feb 2012
#67