Denying Problems When We Don’t Like the Solutions (perhaps somewhat off-topic)

[GliderGuider]

26. I never said anything about Malthusian rabbits.

In fact, my original comments weren't directed at population growth at all. You introduced the concept of fertility rates and directed the conversation towards the specific idea of population growth.

I started off talking about our "growth imperative", which to me is a general term that encompasses growth in either population or per-capita consumption. Remember that my main concern is about our impact on the planet, which is the product of our population and our per-capita consumption. I then said that in developed countries some of our growth urge had shifted from population to consumption, and much the same thing is happening now in developing nations.

All species grow in terms of their impact on their environment until they reach some external limit. With most animal species this limit is in food supply, though environmental factors (especially droughts or freezing temperatures) play a role. Humans have a broader envelope and more maneuverability within it, but the same principle applies because the evolved factors underlying reproduction and survival are essentially the same for us as for any animal species.

I take a globalized, species-wide view. For me as long as growth in both human numbers and aggregate consumption is occurring, we have not demonstrated an ability to voluntarily restrain our growth urge in the absence of an external limit. The fact that different groups do different things in different places at different times does not mean that the circumstances that drive the behaviour in one country or region can be generalized to the species - especially when something as evolutionarily antithetical to survival as voluntary de-growth is being considered.

You may not think de-growth in either numbers or consumption is necessary, that the problems can be fixed by doing things smarter and more creatively. If that, or something like it, is really your position, then this may at the core of our disagreement. It represents a fundamentally different worldview from mine, and such gaps are rarely bridgeable through debate.