Environment & Energy

hunter

(40,693 posts)

28. There's plenty of denying problems when we like the solutions too.

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 01:44 PM

Nov 2014

Thus all the posts about wind or solar power, electric or fuel cell cars, shutting down nuclear plants, positive developments in fusion power, etc., etc. are all a sort of denial, implying that this high energy, high environmental impact civilization will be somehow be "saved" by alternative technologies.

It won't be saved.

If we do survive as a technological species it will be by radical social changes, most especially the abandonment of our "consumer" society and our current theories of economics.

The greatest challenge isn't sources of energy or material, it's in making the transition to a low energy, low environmental impact, high technology society in a gentle, non-catastrophic manner.

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Denying Problems When We Don�t Like the Solutions (perhaps somewhat off-topic) [View all] OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 OP

I think Hatrack's Principle covers it pscot Nov 2014 #1

No, I don't think those are sufficient explanations OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #3

When CSPAN first appeared pscot Nov 2014 #4

You and I "believe" we are able to transcend our tool monkeydom. GliderGuider Nov 2014 #5

Nonsense OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #6

Spoil or heal, it's all just change The2ndWheel Nov 2014 #7

Is this what you had in mind? OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #8

That about sums it up The2ndWheel Nov 2014 #30

Very true! GliderGuider Nov 2014 #33

�Tool monkey� is two words, each of which describes a different aspect of Homo sapiens. GliderGuider Nov 2014 #9

Uh huh OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #10

Yet despite all those falling fertility rates, GliderGuider Nov 2014 #11

I�m sorry� do you expect to turn a battleship on a dime? OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #13

Are we consuming less? GliderGuider Nov 2014 #14

Some of us are consuming less OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #16

Show me that developed nations are consuming less real goods. GliderGuider Nov 2014 #18

Interesting OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #20

Here is a look at a set of various raw materials and energy, with population growth GliderGuider Nov 2014 #21

A better look at the world's primary energy consumption GliderGuider Nov 2014 #22

Hmmm� You�re entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #23

What facts have I presented that were incorrect? GliderGuider Nov 2014 #24

No� OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #25

I never said anything about Malthusian rabbits. GliderGuider Nov 2014 #26

Have I misrepresented you? OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #27

Here's a look at what's been happening to TFR and consumption rates GliderGuider Nov 2014 #12

So, for you, �Concrete� = �Consumption� OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #15

It's a proxy, yes. nt GliderGuider Nov 2014 #17

Well that explains it! RiverLover Nov 2014 #2

conservatism ... image Bill USA Nov 2014 #19

There's plenty of denying problems when we like the solutions too. hunter Nov 2014 #28

Naturally, this is your opinion OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #29

"... based on nuclear fusion." hunter Nov 2014 #31

��worse than fossil fuel�� OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #32

Turning the earth's biosphere into a pulsating blob of human protoplasm... hunter Nov 2014 #34

�At this stage of our development we humans would not be mourned.� OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #35

And if humanity lives we will also take down the ecosystem. GliderGuider Nov 2014 #36

This is an article of faith for you OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #39

And likewise, your articles of faith are not mine. nt GliderGuider Nov 2014 #41

The universe is very big. hunter Nov 2014 #37

Viktor Frankl... GliderGuider Nov 2014 #38

How very nihlistic of you. OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #40

I'm not a nihlist in any way. hunter Nov 2014 #42

I'm talking about �existential hihlisim� OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #43

Is there a problem with that position, in your opinion? GliderGuider Nov 2014 #44

It may be held to be logically valid OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #45

None of us is entirely logically consistent. Humans are not very logical beings, after all. GliderGuider Nov 2014 #46

�the only meaning (the universe) has is what humans impute to it" OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #47

What causes the intention to alter one's behaviour? GliderGuider Nov 2014 #48

Determinism is akin to �predestination� OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #49

"If I have no free will, why do I waste time ... pretending that I do? " GliderGuider Nov 2014 #50

It seems to me that delusion is only an advantage if we have free will OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #51

Of course it seems like that to you. GliderGuider Nov 2014 #52

Actual free will is more useful OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #53

I'm with you on the first four GliderGuider Nov 2014 #54

It actually does matter OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #55

Look more closely at your examples. GliderGuider Nov 2014 #56

Blame (or fault finding) actually is important OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #57

Do you think I'm trying to persuade others? GliderGuider Nov 2014 #58

For someone who isn�t interested in persuading others, you certainly go out of your way� OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #59

Why must I? GliderGuider Nov 2014 #60

Fascinating� OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #61

It's all about reward feedbacks. GliderGuider Nov 2014 #62