Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

OKIsItJustMe

(21,875 posts)
51. It seems to me that delusion is only an advantage if we have free will
Mon Nov 17, 2014, 11:01 AM
Nov 2014

With no free will, I am not comforted by my illusion of free will. So, what is the point?

http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/features/are-we-free

[font face=Serif][font size=5]Are we free?[/font]
[font size=4]Neuroscience gives the wrong answer[/font]

by Daniel Dennett / October 16, 2014
Published in November 2014 issue of Prospect Magazine

[font size=3]For several millennia, people have worried about whether or not they have free will. What exactly worries them? No single answer suffices. For centuries the driving issue was about God’s supposed omniscience. If God knew what we were going to do before we did it, in what sense were we free to do otherwise? Weren’t we just acting out our parts in a Divine Script? Were any of our so-called decisions real decisions? Even before belief in an omniscient God began to wane, science took over the threatening role. Democritus, the ancient Greek philosopher and proto-scientist, postulated that the world, including us, was made of tiny entities—atoms—and imagined that unless atoms sometimes, unpredictably and for no reason, interrupted their trajectories with a random swerve, we would be trapped in causal chains that reached back for eternity, robbing us of our power to initiate actions on our own.



There are three main sources for the scientists’ unsettling “discoveries.” First, there is the putative timing of subjects’ decisions. This line of thought grew out of the work of the neurologist Benjamin Libet in the 1980s, which seemed to show that our brains made decisions before we, the conscious agents resident in those brains, could put in our oars. Second, there is the putative fallibility of subjects’ introspective judgements of their own agency, as reported by Daniel Wegner in his 2002 book, The Illusion of Conscious Will, which disclosed systematic errors in people’s judgements of their own role in actions undertaken by their limbs. Third, there is the unrecognised influence on subjects’ decisions of contextual factors that shouldn’t be decisive, growing out of Stanley Milgram’s and Philip Zimbardo’s notorious experiments into authority and obedience with college students back in the 1960s and 70s. More recent work exploring all three veins has come up with some new findings, and these have been seen by some to strengthen or even confirm the case from science against free will. In each area, Mele provides accurate, jargon-free accounts of the experiments and what they do and don’t show. And in each case he locates what, in my opinion, are the most fundamental flaws in the reasoning by those scientists.

The mistakes are so obvious that one sometimes wonders how serious scientists could make them. What has lowered their threshold for careful analysis so catastrophically? Perhaps it is the temptation of glory. What a coup it would be if your neuroscience experiment brought about the collapse of several millennia of inconclusive philosophising about free will! A curious fact about these forays into philosophy is that almost invariably the scientists concentrate on the least scientifically informed, most simplistic conceptions of free will, as if to say they can’t be bothered considering the subtleties of alternative views worked out by mere philosophers. For instance, all the experiments in the Libet tradition take as their test case of a freely willed decision a trivial choice—between flicking or not flicking your wrist, or pushing the button on the left, not the right—with nothing hinging on which decision you make. Mele aptly likens these situations to being confronted with many identical jars of peanuts on the supermarket shelf and deciding which to reach for. You need no reason to choose the one you choose so you let some unconscious bias direct your hand to a jar—any jar—that is handy. Not an impressive model of a freely willed choice for which somebody might be held responsible. Moreover, as Mele points out, you are directed not to make a reasoned choice, so the fact that you have no clue about the source of your urge is hardly evidence that we, in general, are misled or clueless about how we make our choices.



It is a fact that when faced with actually tough decisions—about whether to intervene in somebody else’s crisis, for instance, or to go along with the crowd on some morally dubious adventure—we often disappoint ourselves and others with our craven behaviour. This sobering fact has been experimentally demonstrated in the Milgram and Zimbardo experiments and a host of milder, less traumatic experiments, but far from showing that we are always overwhelmed by context, these experiments invariably exhibit the capacity of a stalwart few to resist the enormous pressures arrayed against them. Is there a heroic minority of folks, then, with genuine free will, capable of being moved by good reasons even under duress? It’s better than that: you can learn—or be trained—to be on the alert for these pressures, and to resist them readily.

…[/font][/font]

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

I think Hatrack's Principle covers it pscot Nov 2014 #1
No, I don't think those are sufficient explanations OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #3
When CSPAN first appeared pscot Nov 2014 #4
You and I "believe" we are able to transcend our tool monkeydom. GliderGuider Nov 2014 #5
Nonsense OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #6
Spoil or heal, it's all just change The2ndWheel Nov 2014 #7
Is this what you had in mind? OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #8
That about sums it up The2ndWheel Nov 2014 #30
Very true! GliderGuider Nov 2014 #33
“Tool monkey” is two words, each of which describes a different aspect of Homo sapiens. GliderGuider Nov 2014 #9
Uh huh OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #10
Yet despite all those falling fertility rates, GliderGuider Nov 2014 #11
I’m sorry… do you expect to turn a battleship on a dime? OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #13
Are we consuming less? GliderGuider Nov 2014 #14
Some of us are consuming less OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #16
Show me that developed nations are consuming less real goods. GliderGuider Nov 2014 #18
Interesting OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #20
Here is a look at a set of various raw materials and energy, with population growth GliderGuider Nov 2014 #21
A better look at the world's primary energy consumption GliderGuider Nov 2014 #22
Hmmm… You’re entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #23
What facts have I presented that were incorrect? GliderGuider Nov 2014 #24
No… OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #25
I never said anything about Malthusian rabbits. GliderGuider Nov 2014 #26
Have I misrepresented you? OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #27
Here's a look at what's been happening to TFR and consumption rates GliderGuider Nov 2014 #12
So, for you, “Concrete” = “Consumption” OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #15
It's a proxy, yes. nt GliderGuider Nov 2014 #17
Well that explains it! RiverLover Nov 2014 #2
conservatism ... image Bill USA Nov 2014 #19
There's plenty of denying problems when we like the solutions too. hunter Nov 2014 #28
Naturally, this is your opinion OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #29
"... based on nuclear fusion." hunter Nov 2014 #31
“…worse than fossil fuel…” OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #32
Turning the earth's biosphere into a pulsating blob of human protoplasm... hunter Nov 2014 #34
“At this stage of our development we humans would not be mourned.” OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #35
And if humanity lives we will also take down the ecosystem. GliderGuider Nov 2014 #36
This is an article of faith for you OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #39
And likewise, your articles of faith are not mine. nt GliderGuider Nov 2014 #41
The universe is very big. hunter Nov 2014 #37
Viktor Frankl... GliderGuider Nov 2014 #38
How very nihlistic of you. OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #40
I'm not a nihlist in any way. hunter Nov 2014 #42
I'm talking about “existential hihlisim” OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #43
Is there a problem with that position, in your opinion? GliderGuider Nov 2014 #44
It may be held to be logically valid OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #45
None of us is entirely logically consistent. Humans are not very logical beings, after all. GliderGuider Nov 2014 #46
“the only meaning (the universe) has is what humans impute to it" OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #47
What causes the intention to alter one's behaviour? GliderGuider Nov 2014 #48
Determinism is akin to “predestination” OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #49
"If I have no free will, why do I waste time ... pretending that I do? " GliderGuider Nov 2014 #50
It seems to me that delusion is only an advantage if we have free will OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #51
Of course it seems like that to you. GliderGuider Nov 2014 #52
Actual free will is more useful OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #53
I'm with you on the first four GliderGuider Nov 2014 #54
It actually does matter OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #55
Look more closely at your examples. GliderGuider Nov 2014 #56
Blame (or fault finding) actually is important OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #57
Do you think I'm trying to persuade others? GliderGuider Nov 2014 #58
For someone who isn’t interested in persuading others, you certainly go out of your way… OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #59
Why must I? GliderGuider Nov 2014 #60
Fascinating… OKIsItJustMe Nov 2014 #61
It's all about reward feedbacks. GliderGuider Nov 2014 #62
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Environment & Energy»Denying Problems When We ...»Reply #51