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Environment & Energy
In reply to the discussion: More than 68% of New European Electricity Capacity Came From Wind and Solar in 2011 [View all]joshcryer
(62,536 posts)63. My interpretation of data is perfectly fine, as you've provided no evidence I am wrong.
A radical transformation of the power generation sector is necessary to move to a lowcarbon future. This requires a concerted push to low-carbon technologies that not only displace inefficient thermal plants, but meet the relentless growth in electricity demand, while maintaining an affordable and reliable service to consumers. Action is required on the supply side through a different technology mix and energy efficiency improvements. As well, growth in electricity demand must be reduced as part of this far-reaching change. This is achieved through the adoption of cap-and-trade systems, and CO2 prices rising to $120 per tonne in OECD+ countries in 2035 and $90 per tonne in Other Major Economies in 2035, as well as support to renewables and changes in regulation (see Annex B). In the 450 Scenario, electricity demand grows at an average annual rate of 1.9% between 2008 and 2035, compared with 2.5% in the Current Policies Scenario. This represents a drop of 5 300 terawatt-hours (TWh), or around 16%, by 2035, corresponding to the combined total current production of OECD North America.
...
Other Major Economies, older inefficient coal plants are rapidly retired, with most of the existing installed capacity being taken out of service often before the end of its technical lifetime within the projection period (Figure 14.3). By then, CCS-fitted plants increase significantly, with many existing plants being retrofitted in order to remain economic and extend their lifetime. Due to the rising price of CO2, some 300 GW (or around one-third) of new coal and gas CCGT plants built between now and 2035 will be retired well before the end of their technical lifetime and in several cases even before they have achieved a commercial return on the capital invested. Around 100 GW fall into this category, representing a net loss of around $70 billion or 28% of the investment cost.

By comparison, in the Current Policies Scenario, coal generation without CCS doubles to 16 300 TWh. Strikingly, by 2035 in the 450 Scenario, coal generation from plants fitted with CCS reaches more than 3 000 TWh, which exceeds that from coal plants not equipped with CCS and represents about three-quarters of the total generation from all CCS-fitted plants (Figure 14.4).
...
Other Major Economies, older inefficient coal plants are rapidly retired, with most of the existing installed capacity being taken out of service often before the end of its technical lifetime within the projection period (Figure 14.3). By then, CCS-fitted plants increase significantly, with many existing plants being retrofitted in order to remain economic and extend their lifetime. Due to the rising price of CO2, some 300 GW (or around one-third) of new coal and gas CCGT plants built between now and 2035 will be retired well before the end of their technical lifetime and in several cases even before they have achieved a commercial return on the capital invested. Around 100 GW fall into this category, representing a net loss of around $70 billion or 28% of the investment cost.

By comparison, in the Current Policies Scenario, coal generation without CCS doubles to 16 300 TWh. Strikingly, by 2035 in the 450 Scenario, coal generation from plants fitted with CCS reaches more than 3 000 TWh, which exceeds that from coal plants not equipped with CCS and represents about three-quarters of the total generation from all CCS-fitted plants (Figure 14.4).
Carbon has to come at a cost, it can't be externalized as it is with attitudes like "climate change need not enter the discussion."
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More than 68% of New European Electricity Capacity Came From Wind and Solar in 2011 [View all]
kristopher
Feb 2012
OP
The determinant is the operational characteristic within a generation and delivery system.
kristopher
Feb 2012
#6
If "fracking is severely curtailed" then I don't see much NG for electrical generation.
joshcryer
Feb 2012
#36
I want data, I want to see that it's actually being pursued, not fantasy plans that...
joshcryer
Feb 2012
#40
I did. I showed that greenwashing natural gas is not going to transition us away from fossil fuels.
joshcryer
Feb 2012
#52
Fracking is absolutely necessary to "meet the needs we might have during a transition."
joshcryer
Feb 2012
#39
Lots of sniping and ranting; absolutely devoid of substance related to the topic of transition
kristopher
Feb 2012
#42
I already told you, we don't. Convince me we do. We don't. The evidience is we don't. I gave it.
joshcryer
Feb 2012
#49
The chart is not flawed, the chart is specific. The EU and US will reduce coal consumption.
joshcryer
Feb 2012
#60
My interpretation of data is perfectly fine, as you've provided no evidence I am wrong.
joshcryer
Feb 2012
#63
Because he has a fantasy solution that isn't reflected in any real world trajectory.
joshcryer
Feb 2012
#68
Not at all, I think the magical robot factories are just as useful as any other "future planning"...
joshcryer
Feb 2012
#80
Erm, right wing garbage. Making people pay externalized costs is not a subsidy.
joshcryer
Feb 2012
#93
Uh, you do realize those electronics are so cheap because they're built in unregulated sectors...
joshcryer
Feb 2012
#86
Are you seriously saying that a snapshot of today supports your assertions about the future?
kristopher
Feb 2012
#91
Yes, because the data I provided is a "snapshot of today," it's not years of trending.
joshcryer
Feb 2012
#92
Explain how nuclear power enables a transition to a noncoarbon energy infrastructure.
kristopher
Feb 2012
#18
Why? As stated many times before, humans are not to be trusted with nuclear power.
Nihil
Feb 2012
#24
In other words you can't answer the question without showing you are being misleading.
kristopher
Feb 2012
#26
I'm not the one who is dodging the facts by constantly raising the "nuclear" red herring.
Nihil
Feb 2012
#47
You seem to be laboring under the impression that you're the only one being coherent here
XemaSab
Feb 2012
#67