Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

PamW

(1,825 posts)
11. CORRECT!!
Sat Mar 3, 2012, 09:37 PM
Mar 2012

Very good. I've always stated that an electric car can be no more efficient, or no more climate friendly than the power plant used to charge the batteries.

Since most of the electric power in the USA is from carbon-based fossil fuels; by switching to an electric, one is just moving the source of the pollution from the tailpipe to the smokestack of a power plant.

There's also about a 7% average loss in the power lines. So the power plant has to generate 7% more energy to compensate; with 7% more pollution. Additionally, batteries and chargers are not 100% efficient either. Nickel-Metal-Hydride batteries give you back about 2/3 the energy you put in.

So many quote the high efficiency of the electric motor as if it were the only loss mechanism.

In point of fact, the motor is NOT the engine. If anything a motor is analogous to a transmission.

Warning Science content: In Science, an engine takes a fuel input and outputs work ( useful energy ).
A motor takes in work and output work in another form. Electricity is not a fuel, it is a form of work ( energy without entropy ). An electric motor takes in work ( electricity ) and outputs work in the form of rotary motion. A transmission takes in work as rotary motion and outputs work as rotary motion of a different speed. So a motor is analogous to a transmission and not an engine. The power plant is analogous to the engine.

From a carbon footprint point of view, the only place an electric car makes sense from a carbon footprint point of view is in northern Illinois. The Commonwealth Edison service area is so heavily based on low-carbon nuclear power that it is the only place that makes EVs carbon friendly. Anyone in the Commonwealth Edison area; I support your choice of EV. I can't make the same recommendation for anywhere else.

PamW

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

John Michael Greer on the electric car chaska Mar 2012 #1
There so many holes in that it would be hard to start madokie Mar 2012 #3
I was thinking that it would have been nice if Greer had included some numbers GliderGuider Mar 2012 #4
That same article was in the paper that the local rural electric co-op puts out madokie Mar 2012 #5
WRONG!!!!! PamW Mar 2012 #9
CORRECT!! PamW Mar 2012 #11
See post #25 kristopher Mar 2012 #37
Nothing there PamW Mar 2012 #41
It categorically refutes your conclusion kristopher Mar 2012 #43
Comparison of CO2 emissions by various technologies under differing policies kristopher Mar 2012 #25
Another factor to consider when looking hybrid/elecrtic vehicles is climate. liberal N proud Mar 2012 #2
I think that most if not all heat the seats and steering wheel rather than the air in the vehicle madokie Mar 2012 #6
You aren't going to get away with cooling the seats only in the south.. Fumesucker Mar 2012 #7
Most of the time you'd pre-heat or pre-cool the EV before unplugging it txlibdem Mar 2012 #8
Taxing the batteries. PamW Mar 2012 #12
How is it taxing the batteries when the car is still plugged in? txlibdem Mar 2012 #13
You said the EV's would only have cooling for the seats and wheel.. Fumesucker Mar 2012 #15
Draw well under a kilowatt. Heat is the main killer. Even AC isn't too bad. nt dmallind Mar 2012 #17
The average blow dryer is about a kilowatt.. Fumesucker Mar 2012 #18
Well jeez I can believe you or my car's specs and consumption data dmallind Mar 2012 #26
Have you actually had it in really hot and humid weather yet? Fumesucker Mar 2012 #28
In Feb-Mar? No - but try this dmallind Mar 2012 #29
It looks like 11 miles is cut from your range if I'm reading the display correctly.. Fumesucker Mar 2012 #30
The guessometer is called that for a reason. I get 4.6m/kW. dmallind Mar 2012 #31
Ah, some numbers to work with.. Fumesucker Mar 2012 #33
EXACTLY!!! PamW Mar 2012 #35
Perhaps you could document the draw of a modern auto AC compressor. kristopher Mar 2012 #36
I found this article about electrically driven compressors for cars.. Fumesucker Mar 2012 #38
So let's say this wild scenario is actually real. dmallind Mar 2012 #39
Oh, a misunderstanding. That was not me who posted that. txlibdem Mar 2012 #19
Oops.. Fumesucker Mar 2012 #20
Don't be. When I became disabled I had to cancel my order for the Nissan Leaf txlibdem Mar 2012 #21
Sorry to hear of your troubles.. Fumesucker Mar 2012 #24
No worries txlibdem Mar 2012 #34
My scenario PamW Mar 2012 #42
Granted, that would drain energy from the battery txlibdem Mar 2012 #44
I was just relating what I've read in their promotionals madokie Mar 2012 #22
WRONG!!!!! PamW Mar 2012 #10
watch this vid for a more realistic and optimistic take greenman3610 Mar 2012 #14
Electric vehicles are the only ones that will get cleaner as they get older txlibdem Mar 2012 #45
And the cheapest line is a high estimate dmallind Mar 2012 #16
You're a good driver. tinrobot Mar 2012 #23
Do you have hills? dmallind Mar 2012 #27
It's a mix... tinrobot Mar 2012 #32
Not real familiar with the BMW in great detail I'm afraid dmallind Mar 2012 #40
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Environment & Energy»Comparing Energy Costs pe...»Reply #11