Israel/Palestine

shira

(30,109 posts)

6. See #5 below. n/t

Reply to Ken Burch (Reply #3)

Sun Apr 19, 2015, 07:59 AM

Apr 2015

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�Jew-baiter� and former SS member Gunter Grass dies [View all] shira Apr 2015 OP

From the Wik... R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2015 #1

How on earth was he a �Jew-baiter�? Little Tich Apr 2015 #2

He criticized the Israeli government's treatment of Palestinians. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #3

Poor, shira. R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2015 #4

See #5 below. n/t shira Apr 2015 #6

What makes u an expert on what is or isn't antisemitic? The ADL & Wiesenthal Center.... shira Apr 2015 #21

It's only antisemitic to attack or express prejudice against Jews-not to criticize the Israeli gov't Ken Burch Apr 2015 #60

His poem was an attack against Jews. shira Apr 2015 #74

Israel does not equal Jews. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #75

Tell that to the many, many supporters here of Gilad Atzmon, Helen Thomas, Richard Falk..... shira Apr 2015 #88

1) I've never defended Atzmon...what I said was that he was irrelevant. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #95

Atzmon is not irrelevant when influential people.... shira Apr 2015 #102

Medea Benjamin isn't an antisemite or a self-loathing Jew either. She's for peace. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #106

Medea Benjamin is w/o question an antisemite... shira Apr 2015 #111

She went to one conference. That's nothing. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #113

Benjamin never explained her motive for being there, or apologized for going.... shira Apr 2015 #116

Medea Benjamin is not a "hateful shit" Ken Burch Apr 2015 #119

If she was decent, she'd at least condemn shits like Ken O'Keefe & Alison Weir... shira Apr 2015 #123

I don't know who Ken O'Keefe even is, for the record. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #127

Then look him up. Medea was with him in Iran. And here's Benjamin on Helen Thomas.... shira Apr 2015 #131

Helen Thomas is DEAD. Why does she even still matter? Ken Burch Apr 2015 #132

It's important b/c not only is she antisemitic, her Israel hating fans who defend her... shira Apr 2015 #137

Ken, I'll remind you that you took issue with Grass 3 years ago shira Apr 2015 #24

And ADL and the Wiesenthal Center don't speak for all Jews. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #62

You took issue with Grass 3 years ago, but you're now pretending his poem.... shira Apr 2015 #89

Former SS members don't get to preach morality to Jews.... shira Apr 2015 #5

The issue is Israel having nuclear weapons, not "the Jews". Ken Burch Apr 2015 #7

No, the issue is that a Nazi says Jews cannot have a weapon of last resort.... shira Apr 2015 #8

Grass didn't want anyone to have nukes as a weapon of any resort. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #9

Grass only accused the Jewish state of wanting to annihilate.... shira Apr 2015 #10

I pointed you towards 3 Haaretz articles, all penned by Israelis.... shira Apr 2015 #11

The poem condemns the possible use of a nuclear first strike. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #12

There's no chance Israel preempts with a nuclear 1st strike shira Apr 2015 #19

This general silence on the facts, R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2015 #34

Again, the ADL & Simon Wiesenthal Center say he's an antisemite shira Apr 2015 #38

Because Grass wrote a poem that slams Israel and Germany... R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2015 #41

So wait. You think u know what antisemitism is better than the ADL or SWC? shira Apr 2015 #46

I believe that the word is used as a weapon whose blade has grown as dull as a butter knife. R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2015 #49

They represent the most right-wing voices in the American Jewish community. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #61

No, they're respected by the Jewish mainstream as the leading voices.... shira Apr 2015 #70

That epithet has been used so much as to have lost meaning. R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2015 #43

Almost all Jews are critical of Israel in some way. That doesn't make them antisemites shira Apr 2015 #51

The ones who are critical get demonized(by people like you)as "self-loathing Jews". Ken Burch Apr 2015 #53

No, EVERY Jew who knows anything about Israel is critical of Israel in some way.... shira Apr 2015 #55

So you admit that it's totally wrong to call Jewish critics of Israel "self-loathing Jews"? Ken Burch Apr 2015 #57

Jewish 'critics' like Max Blumenthal, Gilad Atzmon, Richard Falk, Medea Benjamin..... shira Apr 2015 #68

But I wasn't writing about Jews, shira. That's, again, your twist on things. R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2015 #59

All Jews are critics of Israel. Not all Jews are labeled as antisemites. n/t shira Apr 2015 #72

On this board, you've never criticized anything the Israeli government has done. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #81

I don't criticize Israel on any board that allows hostile critics to vent their hatred shira Apr 2015 #91

Did you really just compare the I/P group on DU to Stormfront and JewWatch? Ken Burch Apr 2015 #98

Nope, but you've implied you're not all that disturbed.... shira Apr 2015 #105

Helen Thomas is dead and Medea Benjamin(who is Jewish) is not a Jew-hater and you know it. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #112

Do you have a problem with reading comprehension today? R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2015 #83

No. Do you have a problem with basic logic and reasoning? shira Apr 2015 #92

criticizing the Israeli gov't in private is meaningless and doesn't count. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #122

You're clueless. All Jews criticize Israel. No one calls all Jews antisemites. n/t shira Apr 2015 #71

Once again, shira, I wasn't writing about Jews. That, again, is your twist on things. R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2015 #82

You were writing about critics of Israel. All Jews happen to be critics of Israel.... shira Apr 2015 #90

Before you fall on your face again, I was not writing about "Jews". I was writing about critics of R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2015 #93

Again? When you write about critics of Israel, are you forgetting that all Jews.... shira Apr 2015 #99

Jew, Jew, Jew, Jew...you're a broken record without much substance. R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2015 #101

Aww, poor thing. You have no evidence whatsoever that "ALL" critics of Israel.... shira Apr 2015 #109

She may be conflating your posts and mine, Daneel. n/t. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #117

Not a mensa-level tactic... R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2015 #125

But we all know that's impossible with Iran...or at least not worth risking. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #52

Let's start here with your problem... R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2015 #14

That nazi hypocrite wanted Germany to come to grips with its Nazi past shira Apr 2015 #22

Was being drafted a crime to you or the fact that he has the ability to criticize? R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2015 #28

Grass was an antisemitic hypocrite. Only Israel is a nuclear threat, not N.Korea, Pakistan.... shira Apr 2015 #30

Please point out his anti-Semitism. R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2015 #32

The ADL and Simon Wiesenthal center said it's antisemitic. Here are links... shira Apr 2015 #36

Was he a nazi? He was a conscript. R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2015 #64

He proved he was in 2012 with that poem. n/t shira Apr 2015 #77

Oh, poor you, now you're just making shit up to justify your shrill accusations. R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2015 #84

Apparently, the ADL and SWC made shit up about Grass too. n/t shira Apr 2015 #94

That's their opinion, and a weak sauce one at that. Like I wrote earlier... R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2015 #96

Amazing how you believe the vast majority of Jews use the charge of antisemitism.... shira Apr 2015 #103

If I had written that poem would you consider me an anti-Semite? Mind you R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2015 #85

AFAIK you aren't a former Nazi who hid his past like Grass did.... shira Apr 2015 #104

No he didn't. There's nothing in that poem that equates to wanting a Judenrein world. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #108

He was too young to have done anything that mattered. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #54

A new low when we have so many DU'ers defending an unrepentant, antisemitic Nazi shira Apr 2015 #56

He spent his whole life repenting. His books were his repentance. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #58

Not enough, when he just couldn't contain his antisemitism anymore.... shira Apr 2015 #69

How is it antisemitic to say it would be just as wrong for Israel to launch a nuclear strike Ken Burch Apr 2015 #73

It's wrong b/c Israel will not launch a nuclear attack. That's anti-Jew libel. shira Apr 2015 #86

I've never defended Gilad Atzmon and you know it. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #100

When you say Atzmon's irrelevant & he's not, that's problematic shira Apr 2015 #107

You'd have a point if I'd said that Grass was infallible. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #110

Ken, you're wrong about Atzmon, Benjamin, and Helen Thomas. shira Apr 2015 #114

Medea Benjamin has nothing in common with Atzmon or Thomas. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #115

Then let's focus on Thomas. How upset are you with her, as an anti-racist..... shira Apr 2015 #118

She said an inflammatory thing. She lost her job and she's dead. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #120

But you cannot acknowledge that what she said was antisemitic. shira Apr 2015 #128

Helen Thomas was not on my "team"...I'm not ON anyone's "team". Ken Burch Apr 2015 #129

At least u now concede what Thomas said was bigoted and "on balance antisemitic" shira Apr 2015 #133

No I haven't made it impossible for people to be called out on antisemitism. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #136

There's so much wrong in that last post of yours. shira Apr 2015 #139

The European antisemitism that culminated in the Holocaust was a singular blight on history. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #142

I disagree with you. Little Tich Apr 2015 #13

The ADL & Simon Wiesenthal Center said his poem was antisemitic. n/t shira Apr 2015 #23

I'm sorry for the horrible cursing, but what you do is tasteless. Little Tich Apr 2015 #25

I can't fucking stand Nazis, nor any other Jew hating degenerates shira Apr 2015 #26

"Gunter Grass was a miserable Nazi until the day he died." R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2015 #33

Unrepentant Nazi called antisemitic by ADL and Simon Wiesenthal Center shira Apr 2015 #37

Actually he came out about 9 years ago... R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2015 #42

Did you read the OP? His secret past was about to go public. He came out.... shira Apr 2015 #44

Do you mean this? R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2015 #50

None of the rest of us can stand Nazis either. Grass was a conscript at age 16 Ken Burch Apr 2015 #63

You hit the nail on the head, Mr. Burch. R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2015 #65

Are you kidding? Jew-haters like Gilad Atzmon, Richard Falk.... shira Apr 2015 #76

Medea Benjamin does not hate Jews, and Helen Thomas is dead. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #79

My comments from 2012 - which I stand by now LeftishBrit Apr 2015 #15

I was curious, shira. How many dead children do you believe that Grass was responsible for vs R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2015 #16

Hamas & their BDS-hole friends are responsible for children in Gaza... shira Apr 2015 #17

I'm not sure why you want to excuse the deeds of Bibi the baby killer...BUT R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2015 #18

I'm pretty certain you're sure it's Hamas' fault & anyone encouraging Hamas shira Apr 2015 #20

Actually, killing Palestinians children was the responsibility of the IDF and Netanyahu, silly. R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2015 #27

Wow...You couldn't agree that Hamas should've accepted the 1st ceasefire proposal shira Apr 2015 #29

The point is irrelevent considering that I was talking to you about Grass vs NuttyYahoo. R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2015 #31

You brought up the Gaza war. You've ranted about Bibi the baby killer.... shira Apr 2015 #35

List all 10 of the cease fire offers that Hamas rejected during Protective Edge azurnoir Apr 2015 #39

It was 11 ceasefires they rejected or violated shira Apr 2015 #45

In each case the cease fire were mere hours most notable was the July 20 when Israel commited azurnoir Apr 2015 #67

Yeah, mere hours because Hamas violated them & wanted their war shira Apr 2015 #80

Did you read the MFA link you posted? the cease fires were humanitarian and meant to be hours long azurnoir Apr 2015 #130

And Hamas wouldn't even keep those. You're once again letting Hamas completely off the hook..... shira Apr 2015 #134

Israel refused a 10 year truce on July 16 2014 azurnoir Apr 2015 #135

Like I thought, you don't have a problem with Hamas' human shielding... shira Apr 2015 #138

are you confused? I ask because here you are on 4 seperate comments justifying Israels killing azurnoir Apr 2015 #140

No, on at least 4-5 occasions you have refused to assign any blame to Hamas.... shira Apr 2015 #141

No, shira, it was you who twisted this thread into Gaza. R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2015 #40

You brought up Bibi and Gazan child deaths & now you're whining about it.... shira Apr 2015 #47

No, my poor fabricator, it was you... R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2015 #48

What a shameful, gutter-level smear geek tragedy Apr 2015 #66

His smear about the Jewish state wanting to nuke Iran & kill its citizens.... shira Apr 2015 #78

Enjoy your grave dancing. nt geek tragedy Apr 2015 #87

Then why did Grass pretend Israel wanted to nuke Iran and annihilate its citizens? shira Apr 2015 #97

He meant the Israeli government, not every Jewish person in Israel. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #121

No one in Israel, aside from a few maniacs, believes Netanyahu is that insane. n/t shira Apr 2015 #124

They should be a bit less trusting of the guy. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #126