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Shaktimaan

(5,397 posts)
58. Regarding use of the term "apartheid?" Yes. More or less.
Fri Nov 2, 2012, 08:09 PM
Nov 2012

That is not to say I freely use the term to describe Arab states or any other nations who engage in acts I abhor, either. According to the given definitions, actual crimes of apartheid are thankfully rare in the world. The standard of proof that a institutional crime must meet to qualify as a crime of apartheid is just too high for it to be a common occurrence. But yeah, I only object when it is used against Israel because Israel is the subject I discuss most often. My subject of interest is not the misuse of the term apartheid around the globe. It is Israel. So of course I only address these issues when they affect Israel, but it's not hypocritical to do so.

Now I have no problem with the critique of Israeli actions, especially when it comes to their west bank settlement policies. What I do take issue with is the use of a term like apartheid when it is clearly being used dishonestly. It's used specifically to try and tap into the existing negative feelings the world has regarding the South African policy that ended in the 90s. In the ad biz we call this "borrowed equity" and it's considered dirty pool. It lends itself to being used in ways that leverage the bad feelings towards the term without really connecting the reasons people hated SA's apartheid with anything that Israel is doing today. It requires significantly altering the meaning of the word from what it meant in SA, so it can be applied to anything that Israel is doing today. But that meaningful point is purposefully lost because as soon as Israel's policies are labeled as "apartheid" the discussion is effectively over.

The motive behind using this term is not to foster meaningful discussion regarding Israeli politics. It is to force their opponents to defend "apartheid policies", a debate that is obviously lost before it begins. (Not on any merit of the arguments but by virtue of apartheid being indefensible.) Lost in the shuffle is the fact that the apartheid we remember is not anything like Israel's policies that now bear the same name. That name becomes their only common trait.

Other examples of this tactic being used against Israel are when parallels are drawn between Gaza and the Warsaw Ghetto. In reality they share no common traits at all. But that doesn't matter. To even force your opponent to explain how the two are different is to have forced him to vocalize a comparison between the two. Another would be to compare the Zionists with Nazis. Using these types of arguments diverts the discussion away from meaningful debates over the nature of certain policies or human rights and instead bogs us all down in the minutiae of defining the exact meaning of a certain term. Instead of explaining why Zionism is bad we see debates over why Zionism is JUST like Nazism. But since Zionism isn't REALLY anything like Nazism it requires a lot of weird historical voodoo to make the argument, which is then refuted and the next thing you know we are debating whether Zionism and Nazism are similar; an argument which ultimately contributes NOTHING to anyone's understanding of the I/P conflict whatsoever.

But it is never enough to simply state why Zionism is wrong... no, it can't merely be "bad", it has to be "worse than the Nazis." Bibi isn't merely "wicked", he must be Hitler multiplied by Pol Pot and then given rabies. And Israel's settlement policies can't just be unethical and counterproductive, they must be apartheid.

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Are you going to post all of 972mag's articles individually? oberliner Oct 2012 #1
Silence to the present acts of brutality. R. Daneel Olivaw Oct 2012 #2
'apartheid state '? King_David Oct 2012 #3
Anybody hiding from that term shows more about themselves than fact. R. Daneel Olivaw Oct 2012 #5
Maybe... Shaktimaan Oct 2012 #19
Actually your hypothesis is off. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #26
The obvious problem... Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #27
So I see that you are on to number two already. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #29
a more sensible approach... Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #30
Let's try again since you ignored this. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #32
Sure. Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #34
Officially legitimize them quickly? An illegal settlement outside of Israel proper? R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #37
you are confused... Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #39
Proof of Palestinians living in settlements... shira Nov 2012 #81
Now then... Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #35
Does this objection to words only apply when they're aimed at Israel? Violet_Crumble Nov 2012 #54
Regarding use of the term "apartheid?" Yes. More or less. Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #58
Singling Israel out... Violet_Crumble Nov 2012 #71
Violet, if Israeli policies vs. Palestinians are reminiscent of apartheid... shira Nov 2012 #80
you mean like Desmond Tutu? azurnoir Oct 2012 #7
Tutu has his own issues recently King_David Oct 2012 #13
of course I do and it really doesn't seem much of a problem except for those who wish very very very azurnoir Nov 2012 #28
Umm , so ? nt King_David Nov 2012 #31
Silence is not speaking out oberliner Oct 2012 #4
I would expect no less. R. Daneel Olivaw Oct 2012 #6
That's great oberliner Oct 2012 #11
Thanks. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #33
You want the best for Israel by demonizing it as King_David Nov 2012 #36
If you are so incline you may keep on drinking the kool-aid then, King D. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #38
Try stick to the topic and not King_David Nov 2012 #41
I have kept to the topic even when Shsktimaan tried to dance away from it. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #44
Israel the Apartheid State : King_David Nov 2012 #47
Keep on laughing, King D. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #48
about your quote azurnoir Nov 2012 #49
Not Apartheid ? King_David Nov 2012 #51
Aint gonna happen King_David Nov 2012 #50
I'm glad you can feel confident to double down on the language of "Jewish state." R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #52
You really are clueless aren't you ? King_David Nov 2012 #55
No, you're just willfully blind. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #60
You do not know much Jewish or Hebrew do you? King_David Nov 2012 #69
Take your fake outrage somplace else, King D. Alright? R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #72
Well you denied The Jewish State King_David Nov 2012 #73
Yes, you are wrong, again. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #84
"foolish" ? King_David Nov 2012 #85
Thanks. It just worked wonders, KD. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #86
It implies no such thing. Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #74
The problem with yr Italy and Italian thing... Violet_Crumble Nov 2012 #75
What about Macedonia? oberliner Nov 2012 #76
No problem. It's just semantics. Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #82
Of course, you do realize that... Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #62
well yes you've certainly spoken out I'll give you that azurnoir Oct 2012 #8
Have you considered walking the walk as well as talking the talk? oberliner Oct 2012 #12
People can criticise Israel without having been to the West Bank... Violet_Crumble Oct 2012 #16
It was just a question oberliner Nov 2012 #56
Sure, it was just an innocent conversational travel question n/t Violet_Crumble Nov 2012 #70
No it wasn't oberliner Nov 2012 #77
you did not answer the question I asked about Desmond Tutu he's been there azurnoir Oct 2012 #17
He definitely acts on his convictions oberliner Nov 2012 #78
Does it matter that this is from 972mag? Ken Burch Nov 2012 #87
There was a time when the Israeli govt condemned these attacks... Violet_Crumble Oct 2012 #9
No there wasn't oberliner Oct 2012 #10
Yes there was. Olmert condemned the attacks... Violet_Crumble Oct 2012 #14
Five attacks on olive harvesters and damaged olive groves in four days Violet_Crumble Oct 2012 #15
seeing as how this happens virtually every olive harvest azurnoir Oct 2012 #18
They prepared very well for standing idly by and doing nothing to stop it... Violet_Crumble Nov 2012 #23
New Video Shows Palestinians, Left Wing Activists Cutting Down Olive Trees shira Oct 2012 #20
black op Zionist Jews, King_David Oct 2012 #21
Keep on laughing if you will. Too bad the video R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #45
I think we have different sense of humours , King_David Nov 2012 #46
so that's what the algeminer calls clearing brush azurnoir Nov 2012 #22
I wonder if ones like that can't see the difference between settlers and the landowners... Violet_Crumble Nov 2012 #24
Video: Hebron settlers and the olive harvest Violet_Crumble Nov 2012 #25
How long until the legitimacy of this video is called into question? R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #40
It wouldn't surprise me if it already has been... Violet_Crumble Nov 2012 #42
I'm not sure why 1+1 doesn't add up to the desired 2 for some. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #43
I think that some people get so wrapped up in their 'cause' that they get blind to a lot... Violet_Crumble Nov 2012 #53
If it's Friday, it must be Mondoweiss! oberliner Nov 2012 #57
Or It's friday, and another denier laughs at the truth. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #59
have you noticed... Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #64
Can you refute the story? Do you care about the truth? R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #66
Of course I care about the truth. Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #67
Seriously? Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #61
I find your tapdance increasingly irrelevant. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #63
That's funny. Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #65
No... it's not that... Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #68
Disgusting child abuse nt Violet_Crumble Nov 2012 #83
WATCH: Israelis lend a hand in the West Bank olive harvest Violet_Crumble Nov 2012 #79
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