Israel/Palestine

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)

51. I am aware of that. But my question, which I should have made more clear

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 12:03 AM

Nov 2012

was 'can they leave Gaza, are they free to go where they please as all free people ought to be?

How come, eg, so much of their land has been occupied? I viewed a map of the diminishing land of the Palestinian people and frankly, any people whose land is occupied like that will and has a right to fight for it.

Something is wrong here. I would like to see some honest, truthful coverage of this situation on our own media, but all I ever see are Israeli spokespeople speaking not just for themselves, but for the Palestinian people. I find that insulting frankly.

Peres, last night on Piers Morgan eg, spoke about the Palestinians as if they were children. I know he probably did not realize it, but that is how it came across. Let them speak for themselves here or let neither side speak on our media. It is disturbing to see the attitude towards an entire people on our media. From the few Palestinians I have heard speak, they have impressed me as extremely intelligent and perfectly capable of speaking for themselves.

Our media is not only doing a disservice to the Palestinians with their very biased coverage, they are doing a disservice to Israel, making it look as though they are silencing the Palestinians because they have something to hide.

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Israel Hate is Anti-Semitism [View all] shira Nov 2012 OP

How do you feel about Israel ? orpupilofnature57 Nov 2012 #1

Bull-fucking-SHIT! MotherPetrie Nov 2012 #2

Amen to that! railsback Nov 2012 #37

Well, I think JoDog Nov 2012 #135

which Hamas coddling threads please link us to some azurnoir Nov 2012 #146

Haven't seen any of those railsback Nov 2012 #174

Joe u should be living in gaza lsewpershad Nov 2012 #203

So, am I mistaken or is Israel holding Judaism hostage? DetlefK Nov 2012 #133

Israel's gov't is just our badly behaved punk cousin who has to be bailed out again. To point that leveymg Nov 2012 #227

Israel is ethnicly cleansing Palestine because they want the land. Deep13 Nov 2012 #3

Nah, they just want to harvest Palestinian organs and use the blood in matzos. shira Nov 2012 #7

You've spent that nickle already. Deep13 Nov 2012 #100

shira...stop. You're embarassing yourself. Ken Burch Nov 2012 #200

Israel left Gaza and is not claiming the land ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #8

Umm... R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #154

So why lsewpershad Nov 2012 #205

Do you even hear yourself speaking? holdencaufield Nov 2012 #23

No, I don't talk when I'm typing. Deep13 Nov 2012 #99

Israel has already done that ... holdencaufield Nov 2012 #102

I believe this guy. Deep13 Nov 2012 #107

Very few people go to the Middle East to "find facts" ... holdencaufield Nov 2012 #114

Do you know Dr. Hixson? I do. Deep13 Nov 2012 #195

I believe this guy ... polly7 Nov 2012 #116

It's sad for both peoples ... Fantastic Anarchist Nov 2012 #153

Your perogative, I guess. nt Deep13 Nov 2012 #197

That's not true either. The six day war was a flexing of Israeli muscle. PDJane Nov 2012 #226

Where is Hamas getting their bombs and rockets? Kolesar Nov 2012 #130

When you look at US history did you ever sop to ask where the Colonials R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #160

So you don't want to talk about it Kolesar Nov 2012 #169

Sounds like you are having the trouble, not me. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #179

Behold, the "twitchy leftist" Kolesar Nov 2012 #185

When the colonies during the American Revolution were fighting for their R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #213

I suspect Iran and Russia. Deep13 Nov 2012 #196

It all goes back to the cold war where Israel was R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #214

Excellent article - thanks for the link. n/t Raksha Nov 2012 #225

Now that is purely 2naSalit Nov 2012 #206

There are no settlements in Gaza oberliner Nov 2012 #24

Are the people of Gaza free like other normal people in the world, to come sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #30

+1000 great post. N/t cire41 Nov 2012 #38

There are no checkpoints in Gaza oberliner Nov 2012 #43

I am aware of that. But my question, which I should have made more clear sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #51

Gaza borders two countries, Egypt and Israel oberliner Nov 2012 #57

Thank you. I do watch Al Jazeera and other foreign media. I was referring sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #68

Still, the past restrictions Egypt put in place on Gazans leaving and entering Gaza Ken Burch Nov 2012 #219

+1000 great post King_David Nov 2012 #192

And answer to your question concerning Gaza holdencaufield Nov 2012 #85

Thank you! n/t sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #235

Israel is her own worst enemy. Fantastic Anarchist Nov 2012 #161

Israel's actions cause antisemitism? oberliner Nov 2012 #194

And I call Bullshit! Now tell me about the West Bank and what is going on there with teddy51 Nov 2012 #36

It's not Bullshit. It is indisputably factual. oberliner Nov 2012 #45

You people are great at rerouting the subject! I asked about the West Bank, not Gaza. You fuckers teddy51 Nov 2012 #47

You people? oberliner Nov 2012 #60

No, the discussion is not about Gaza the discussion is about Palestine vs Israel and what land teddy51 Nov 2012 #70

You're assuming Hamas can be mollified by negotiations. They're perfectly clear.... shira Nov 2012 #125

It is my understanding Peregrine Nov 2012 #115

ah winner keepers losers pound sand is that it? I see azurnoir Nov 2012 #118

In 1967, Israel attacked. Fantastic Anarchist Nov 2012 #163

Except... Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #261

So then... Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #279

But, but, but, there are no settlements in Gaza. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #157

There aren't oberliner Nov 2012 #164

Strange you ignored my question to answer your own. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #175

Huh? oberliner Nov 2012 #186

Yes, i'm sure that the giant graphic was just too painful to see and it took forever to load. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #198

Hebron is particularly repulsive. Fantastic Anarchist Nov 2012 #162

Why do you think so? Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #281

There's no room. It's about the size of DC, and has damn near twice as many people leveymg Nov 2012 #55

You are wrong oberliner Nov 2012 #59

My larger point is valid. I said it's an overcrowded walled refugee camp that's not worth leveymg Nov 2012 #64

Israel made a trade of sorts azurnoir Nov 2012 #101

It's not overcrowded, it's not a refugee camp, and it's not walled oberliner Nov 2012 #128

You can argue those points with the authors of this report: 2/3 of Gaza are refugees leveymg Nov 2012 #131

Nothing in that report disputes what I have written oberliner Nov 2012 #136

What is the difference between a city with 2/3 refugees and a refugee camp? What is the difference leveymg Nov 2012 #139

Quite a lot actually oberliner Nov 2012 #141

I believe it was Dov Weisglass who infamously called the "disengagement" plan ... Fantastic Anarchist Nov 2012 #165

This is a decades-old effort. Deep13 Nov 2012 #97

Confiscated land OregonProg Nov 2012 #113

Changing definitions and Graphical Lies holdencaufield Nov 2012 #119

It's still theft OregonProg Nov 2012 #123

It's only theft ... holdencaufield Nov 2012 #124

I truly believe that you are either being willfully blind R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #217

Thanks for posting those maps you guys. 2naSalit Nov 2012 #207

Except... Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #250

Exactly ann--- Nov 2012 #86

Israelis must suck ... holdencaufield Nov 2012 #120

Wow. I love stunning ignorance spewed with righteousness. aquart Nov 2012 #180

Not that long ago, Israel was open to Palestinians. JDPriestly Nov 2012 #232

"Unfortunately, there are those that are so blinded by their hate of Israel". teddy51 Nov 2012 #4

+1000 orpupilofnature57 Nov 2012 #5

There was even more hate prior to Netanyahu during OCL... shira Nov 2012 #6

Sorry, but I see some of you as "Poor me, please feel sorry for me) and forget what we do in teddy51 Nov 2012 #9

Israel made a serious move to peace 7 years ago with the Gaza withdrawal.... shira Nov 2012 #11

Consult Dov Weisglass if it was a move towards peace. Fantastic Anarchist Nov 2012 #168

Opposing the Gaza withdrawal, which you're doing due to Israel's "evil" intent..... shira Nov 2012 #171

I'd like to entertain your straw man ... Fantastic Anarchist Nov 2012 #172

Who cares what he said? Does he force Hamas to fire rockets at Israel.... shira Nov 2012 #176

Tsk, tsk. Fantastic Anarchist Nov 2012 #188

Who cares what he said? Nobody that is apparently falling all over themselves R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #218

I'm sorry, Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #252

Indeed. eom Purveyor Nov 2012 #25

Intifada 2 .... Fantastic Anarchist Nov 2012 #167

Intifada 2 was the Palestinian response to a fair peace deal... shira Nov 2012 #177

There was no fair peace deal offered. Fantastic Anarchist Nov 2012 #187

What you said. How dare this OP try to use that old and no longer effective sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #32

"that tactic has the exact opposite effect" holdencaufield Nov 2012 #89

That was my point. Thanks for getting it. I doubt making people angry sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #90

You're angry at Israel for not ... holdencaufield Nov 2012 #92

You're not very good at putting words in other people's mouths. sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #121

"What does an oppressed, imprisoned people (Hamas) do to get the rest of the world's attention" shira Nov 2012 #40

A question for you: What did those Turkish people onboard that boat do to warrant there deaths? teddy51 Nov 2012 #42

You mean the IHH? Turkey accused them recently of having ties... shira Nov 2012 #48

And have you listened to Turkey's PM about this event? No, I doubt you have cause everything is teddy51 Nov 2012 #52

The same Turkish PM responsible for far worse WRT Kurds? Syria's Assad shira Nov 2012 #65

"What did those Turkish people onboard that boat do to warrant there deaths?" holdencaufield Nov 2012 #122

Hang on a second. Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #254

And perhaps we do and that is 2naSalit Nov 2012 #210

Which Israeli political figures do you like? oberliner Nov 2012 #46

Not my call, that belongs to the Israeli people. How about a leader that truly wants to make teddy51 Nov 2012 #49

Well you don't like the call they made with Netanyahu (nor do I) oberliner Nov 2012 #61

Like I said, I'm not an Israeli citizen and don't get to vote there or make that call. teddy51 Nov 2012 #66

You get to have an opinion oberliner Nov 2012 #69

Tzipi Livni fits my bill, but what chance does she have? teddy51 Nov 2012 #81

Livni? Here's a headline and story for you... shira Nov 2012 #91

The sad thing is - she won the most votes last time! oberliner Nov 2012 #129

I would like to see the Labor party guy(sorry can't remember his name) Get back in power. hrmjustin Nov 2012 #50

Barak? Peres? n/t shira Nov 2012 #67

Barak. hrmjustin Nov 2012 #71

Really Barak is Israel's current Minister of Defense and the one in charge of this show azurnoir Nov 2012 #96

He works for BIBI.Oh my I should pay more attention. hrmjustin Nov 2012 #98

The sad truth is this when it comes to Palestinians there is little light between azurnoir Nov 2012 #106

Thanks for the good post. hrmjustin Nov 2012 #202

well written, well argued. well done. ChairmanAgnostic Nov 2012 #152

No it isn't... deathrind Nov 2012 #10

The OP is spot on. Hamas rockets provoke a yawn by the haters. shira Nov 2012 #12

I condemn... deathrind Nov 2012 #28

You condemn the rockets but then give the justification for them... shira Nov 2012 #41

The settlement issue... Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #257

it's only 'complex' to those attempting to obfuscate azurnoir Nov 2012 #276

You know what I love? Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #277

know what I luv weasel words and oh the British mandate ended over 65 years ago azurnoir Nov 2012 #282

Well, in the real world... Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #286

yes well we'll just have to wait and see what the ICC/ICU decides huh? azurnoir Nov 2012 #288

Do you mean the ICC or the ICJ (not the ICU?) Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #291

The killing of over 140 Palestinians, more than half of them innocent sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #33

Oh, the "Israel is bloodthirsty" argument? shira Nov 2012 #44

No, I don't think the Israeli people do, but there leaders certainly have no problem with teddy51 Nov 2012 #54

Who do you think carries out the orders of the government? The IDF.... shira Nov 2012 #72

So tell me about the boat that you guys boarded and killed innocent people on then! Your not teddy51 Nov 2012 #87

IHH terrorists who are BFF with Hamas and connected to al-Qaeda.... shira Nov 2012 #88

That's good, keep repeating these absurd statements Alamuti Lotus Nov 2012 #13

So remind me, where were you the past 4 years since OCL... shira Nov 2012 #18

I was here, observing some propaganda troll bot endlessly recite stale talking points Alamuti Lotus Nov 2012 #19

You were quiet. Am I wrong to assume you were quiet.... shira Nov 2012 #22

You would not be correct in assuming anything; you're just not good at it.. *nt Alamuti Lotus Nov 2012 #27

This may sound strange, but do you realize you are not helping Israel's sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #34

"IF" fighters are hiding in civilian neighborhoods? Hamas boasts about it... shira Nov 2012 #62

And I have seen footage of Israelis using Palestinian children as shields sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #73

So going back to your "if" scenario... shira Nov 2012 #75

That's the question the whole world is asking 'where are the adults sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #84

I'm no sure what you think is going on over there. Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #280

shira's mission here is to excuse Palestinian civilian casualties azurnoir Nov 2012 #80

That charge is pretty funny considering your mission here seems to be to demonize shira Nov 2012 #126

Or what evidence is presented to you of Israel's indifference to suffering.... kayecy Nov 2012 #127

"Israel has killed and injured far more innocents than Hamas could dream of." JoDog Nov 2012 #137

Hamas will......Aren't you being a little too presumptious?..... kayecy Nov 2012 #138

Hamas refuses to recognize Israel JoDog Nov 2012 #145

Hamas' sworn intent to kill the Jews is irrelevant to the "human rights community" shira Nov 2012 #166

You are repeating yourself.............. kayecy Nov 2012 #173

Untrue... Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #258

With the weapons they had....... kayecy Nov 2012 #268

Incorrect. Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #271

Do all Israeli cities contain nothing but civilians?........ kayecy Nov 2012 #273

Why are you playing devil's advocate for Hamas? Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #278

The devil's advocate or someone who can see there are two sides?.... kayecy Nov 2012 #285

The devil's advocate. Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #287

I would very much like to hear your �strong ethical argument� favouring Palestine over the US...... kayecy Nov 2012 #289

You'll get it then. Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #290

"BACK" to Palestine?.....That's not an ethical argument........... kayecy Nov 2012 #292

OK, I see what you're saying. Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #293

Thank you for considering each of my points in detail, but........ kayecy Nov 2012 #294

My ethical argument... Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #296

For the same reason that the US, Argentina or Australia would have rejected it........ kayecy Nov 2012 #298

Pot, meet kettle. Democracyinkind Nov 2012 #134

no because you've shown nothing but hearsay and opinion I originally asked for evidence charges from azurnoir Nov 2012 #143

I quoted B'tselem and you ignored them... shira Nov 2012 #159

No you did not quote B'tselem you claimed that and you were busted which is why no link azurnoir Nov 2012 #183

Btselem's quotes that you're ignoring/denying are right here at these links... shira Nov 2012 #190

Big difference. Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #259

Ah did you trot that stuff back out -again azurnoir Nov 2012 #74

Pretty sick defending Hamas' use of shields. shira Nov 2012 #76

I have questioned MEMRI more than once and that very same video within the past 24hrs azurnoir Nov 2012 #82

What makes you think the translation in this video is misleading? A hunch? n/t shira Nov 2012 #94

no MEMRI's record of biased translation coupled with Israeles propaganda program to make azurnoir Nov 2012 #104

Do you distinguish between ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2012 #14

This isn't about the people vs. their government. shira Nov 2012 #16

My question has everything to with "The People" versus "their Government" ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2012 #140

BTW ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2012 #15

Over 90% of Israel's Jews agree with the military operation. shira Nov 2012 #17

You sound so proud about that. ...nt TeeYiYi Nov 2012 #31

It's b/c they really feel there is no other choice. n/t shira Nov 2012 #77

That is very sad if true. I was giving the Israeli people a pass on these sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #35

The Israeli people aren't in favor of attacking women and children shira Nov 2012 #78

You can't say 'we are not in favor of killing women and children' when sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #93

So your solution meanwhile is for Israelis to lie back, enjoy the rockets... shira Nov 2012 #95

'Relax, the rocket fell on an Arab village' azurnoir Nov 2012 #242

Wow, disgusting comment, seriously. sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #272

true that but it was an Israeli government radio announcer who said it n/t azurnoir Nov 2012 #274

Terrible logic ForgoTheConsequence Nov 2012 #39

Your n�ed to respond to every post makes you look mentally unstable abelenkpe Nov 2012 #56

".. the Jewish State, alone amongst the nations of the world" OneMoreDemocrat Nov 2012 #20

Absolutely ! Anything that keeps Israel from stealing...er jaysunb Nov 2012 #21

Fail. Care to try another? eom Purveyor Nov 2012 #26

If I was an Iranian Cynicus Emeritus Nov 2012 #29

After witnessing our invasion and decimation of Iraq, with israeli encouragement, why the hell Purveyor Nov 2012 #53

Israel had nothing to do with our invasion of Iraq. There were a lot of countries who supported still_one Nov 2012 #110

Israel To U.S. Don't Delay Iraq Attack, Sharon Government Urges Prompt Action Against Saddam - CBS Purveyor Nov 2012 #142

My point was the U.S. was doing regardless, and other western countries did the same bullshit. It still_one Nov 2012 #144

My statement was clear. I said "with israeli encouragement". eom Purveyor Nov 2012 #147

They did not do it because of their encouragement or any other countries encouragement. They did it still_one Nov 2012 #148

We shall just have to disagree then. eom Purveyor Nov 2012 #149

ok. still_one Nov 2012 #191

Indeed nt abelenkpe Nov 2012 #58

FWIW: The jury results are in. aikoaiko Nov 2012 #63

Bullshit. n/t Ed Suspicious Nov 2012 #79

No, it isn't ann--- Nov 2012 #83

How about strong Israel dislike? defacto7 Nov 2012 #103

I don't hate Israel. roody Nov 2012 #105

Israel is a terrorist nation! leftlibdem420 Nov 2012 #108

Bullshit. The argument might be made that the US did, but not Israel, but while you are at it why still_one Nov 2012 #112

Not true about Egypt. LeftishBrit Nov 2012 #221

suit yourself. n/t Lil Missy Nov 2012 #109

The OP is a load of bunk.. GitRDun Nov 2012 #111

No it is not! intaglio Nov 2012 #117

Genius marketing ploy of an immoral regime Democracyinkind Nov 2012 #132

It's somewhat Stalinesque, isn't it? Fantastic Anarchist Nov 2012 #158

Israelis and Palestinians are both Semetic peoples. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #150

Yes, because the mightiest state in the Middle East is a poor victim. Fantastic Anarchist Nov 2012 #151

So let's say a chunk of Mexico (or Canada) is given to terrorists who launch rockets to the USA PuppyBismark Nov 2012 #155

Learn the history, puppy. Fantastic Anarchist Nov 2012 #156

Criticism of Israel is not anti-Semitism. Spider Jerusalem Nov 2012 #170

So the UN partition means nothing. aquart Nov 2012 #182

I didn't say that Spider Jerusalem Nov 2012 #184

Agreed. LeftishBrit Nov 2012 #222

Good luck getting them to admit it. aquart Nov 2012 #178

Not true. I am anti Zionist right wing crazy Israelis, I am not anti Israel or an anti-Semitic. OregonBlue Nov 2012 #181

another article from the same 'progressivezionist' site azurnoir Nov 2012 #189

Post removed Post removed Nov 2012 #193

That's right...this so-called "progressive" magazine says that anyone who is Israeli or Jewish Ken Burch Nov 2012 #201

Disagreement with Israeli security policies is NOT "Israel hate". Ken Burch Nov 2012 #199

Is Paestinian Hate Anti-Semitic? AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #204

Is Palestinian Hate Anti-Semitic? Nope... King_David Nov 2012 #208

If hostility against Jews and Jewish organization is anti-semitic, what do you call Jewish AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #209

an�ti-Sem�ite (nt-smt, nt-) King_David Nov 2012 #211

You do realize not every organization that advocate for Palestinian rights in Palestine.. King_David Nov 2012 #212

You have it wrong. In contrast to you, I have never claimed that any organization that advocates AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #215

The term anti semite applies to Jews. King_David Nov 2012 #216

I saw this the other day, kinda interesting Mosby Nov 2012 #224

Yes I agree, King_David Nov 2012 #231

It is disingenuous and used to "deflect" from the discrimination against Jews. Behind the Aegis Nov 2012 #233

Arabs are Semites. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #240

Are you going to argue that anti-Semitism is discrimination against Arabs? Behind the Aegis Nov 2012 #241

Language is fluid, and definitions change with time, usage and cultural reference. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #243

As BTA said only some people 'usually deflecting from "Jew hatred" King_David Nov 2012 #244

Hmmm. Ain't gonna happen. Check any dictionary. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #245

I studied languages for years. Behind the Aegis Nov 2012 #246

It appears as if you do need a lesson in fluidity; R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #247

No, I really don't and especially not from you. Behind the Aegis Nov 2012 #248

Seemingly you still do. And if you don't want to read it then put me on ignore. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #249

No, I really don't, but you certainly need some. Behind the Aegis Nov 2012 #251

As I said, you can always put me on ignore and dig your heels in to the end of time. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #255

And if you want to play word games, you will get called on it again and again. Behind the Aegis Nov 2012 #256

I thought that you and your provincialism were going away. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #263

But this word is not one of them. Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #283

No; but it could be Islamophobic LeftishBrit Nov 2012 #223

"a term coined by antisemites"? Actually, the German-Jewish scholar Moritz Steinschneider in AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #234

True about not all Palestinians being Muslims (and not all Israelis are Jews).. LeftishBrit Nov 2012 #236

I have no idea as to whether Marr popularized the term. I know that many now use the term to AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #238

spreading that bigotry out among multiple terms that way it's harder to pin down azurnoir Nov 2012 #253

Maybe check out this excellent post to help you with your confusion, King_David Nov 2012 #237

there is no confusion and there is no denial of bigotry against Jews either azurnoir Nov 2012 #260

Nothing's changed King_David Nov 2012 #262

King D stomps his foot in proclamation. "Nothing's changed!" R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #264

This is a tired and boring argument. King_David Nov 2012 #269

Well, you're free to go away then and dig your heels in someplace else. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #270

everything changes n/t azurnoir Nov 2012 #275

Wrong. Hayabusa Nov 2012 #220

Actuallyl . . . last I checked, mzteris Nov 2012 #228

I love my Jewish friends Xipe Totec Nov 2012 #229

Awful, awful argument LibAsHell Nov 2012 #230

my thoughts exactly dlwickham Nov 2012 #239

Does criticism of Israel = Israel hate to you? R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #265

It's sad. polly7 Nov 2012 #266

It's become an easy song and dance to perform to shut up R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #267

Did you notice how no one answered your original question? KimonoGirl Nov 2012 #297

Horse shit. Hating a government's actions doesn't equal hating its people TeamsterDem Nov 2012 #284

Lovely straw man argument... I think the leaders screw up, so I must be a Nazi... bobclark86 Nov 2012 #295