Israel/Palestine

Solindsey

(115 posts)

57. A free and sovereign Palestine would have no place for Hamas.

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 11:37 PM

Feb 2013

Do you not understand that? They offer nothing but violent resistance against Israel. If a peace plan were to be reached that produced a sovereign state of Palestine... what purpose would Hamas serve again? Second time you're being asked. No answer?

And your bias, cherry picked, small sampled polls from Jewish sources are amusing. Nice try though.

And these Israeli arabs you speak of... they are judging Palestinian rule based on what exactly? The Palestinians have been under a permanent state of War with an occupying force. What other reality can they compare their current situation to? Your manipulations aren't working despite how hard you try.

A free Palestine is a step in the right direction. Who said it would be perfect? Almost anything would be better than the racist police state Israel is currently maintaining.

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Racism and the hypocrisy of Israel's advocates [View all] Purveyor Feb 2013 OP

Ben White, writing for Al Jazeera oberliner Feb 2013 #1

so because Ben White is a "young upper class white British man" you have a problem azurnoir Feb 2013 #2

Yes exactly oberliner Feb 2013 #83

Remind me of that next time some loon brings up the Balfour paragraph. R. Daneel Olivaw Feb 2013 #90

Indeed I do... Thanks for the endorsement. ;) eom Purveyor Feb 2013 #10

Hey, thanks for turning me on to Ben White. R. Daneel Olivaw Feb 2013 #77

He is a perfect match for you oberliner Feb 2013 #84

I like any news and articles that are reality-based. R. Daneel Olivaw Feb 2013 #87

Ben White understands why people are anti-semites. n/t shira Feb 2013 #92

Why is the term "racism" used here? I always considered Jews virgogal Feb 2013 #3

There are several reasons. aranthus Feb 2013 #11

Thanks for a most informative response. virgogal Feb 2013 #15

actually, Marx wasn't denouncing religion OR calling for its abolition in that passage. Ken Burch Feb 2013 #35

First, thanks for providing the full quote from Marx. aranthus Feb 2013 #37

Religious hierarchies were hostile to the Left BEFORE the Left was hostile to "religion" Ken Burch Feb 2013 #38

Do you have evidence for any of this? aranthus Feb 2013 #88

Actually, a lot of the Left did object to the Soviet invasions of Czechoslovakia and Hungary Ken Burch Feb 2013 #94

Yeah, there were boycotts and everything. aranthus Feb 2013 #96

The "boycott" thing is a trick obervation there. The USSR and China weren't exporting anything Ken Burch Feb 2013 #97

So why isn't there a boycott of China today? aranthus Feb 2013 #100

I've just demonstrated that the Left DOESN'T universally think Ken Burch Feb 2013 #101

No you haven't. aranthus Feb 2013 #104

There isn't a SINGLE Left "system of belief" Ken Burch Feb 2013 #106

I'm not saying that there is. aranthus Feb 2013 #112

Then the issue is with Mr. White, not "The Left" as a whole. Ken Burch Feb 2013 #114

Who calls Jews a race? aranthus Feb 2013 #168

What I said is that there's no ONE set of Leftist beliefs. Ken Burch Feb 2013 #170

You gave it a good try, but he's willfully being obtuse. Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2013 #164

If it's about occupation, Ken, there's always Tibet since 1951 shira Feb 2013 #103

Most of the Left protested when the Tienenman Square students were killed Ken Burch Feb 2013 #107

Tibet was more than 20 years ago. Crickets since then... Nothing to be proud of there. shira Feb 2013 #108

Tienenman was 20 years ago-Tibet is still an issue Ken Burch Feb 2013 #110

Face it. The people who bash Israel and ignore Tibet don't care about human rights. shira Feb 2013 #111

Just to be clear, are you calling ken a lying, sanctimonious rightwing hypocrite? R. Daneel Olivaw Feb 2013 #113

Anyone honest and with a conscience would be against the Occupation Ken Burch Feb 2013 #115

Sure, most Israelis and their supporters are against occupation, and for good reason. shira Feb 2013 #116

Your statement is not just a false absolutist declaration but it also conradicts your earlier Dick Dastardly Feb 2013 #138

I see today's talking point is Tibet... Violet_Crumble Feb 2013 #119

Today Tibet,, Tomorrow who knows? R. Daneel Olivaw Feb 2013 #122

I just hope tomorrow's talking point is better prepared... Violet_Crumble Feb 2013 #130

Anything that makes you look foolish, you call a "talking point" oberliner Feb 2013 #123

Good show, old chap! Anything that moves the discussion away from R. Daneel Olivaw Feb 2013 #128

Don't be distracted oberliner Feb 2013 #129

Oh, come. You're not even trying any longer. R. Daneel Olivaw Feb 2013 #132

I have none oberliner Feb 2013 #136

Confess? To what? R. Daneel Olivaw Feb 2013 #137

once again why do make insulting replies to DUers whom you know have you on ignore? azurnoir Feb 2013 #169

For the other readers oberliner Feb 2013 #171

well it might at that azurnoir Feb 2013 #172

Here's the thing...for the vast majority of the human race, Ken Burch Feb 2013 #36

You're proving my point. aranthus Feb 2013 #89

Have there really been MANY examples of nationalism bringing good things? Ken Burch Feb 2013 #91

Well sure there is. aranthus Feb 2013 #95

Most conflict is driven by nationalism. Ken Burch Feb 2013 #98

Conflict is driven by difference. aranthus Feb 2013 #99

The Left isn't against "difference" Ken Burch Feb 2013 #102

It's against different ideas. aranthus Feb 2013 #109

cognitive warfare. n/t shira Feb 2013 #12

Which is the first reason I mentioned. aranthus Feb 2013 #13

Some examples... Violet_Crumble Feb 2013 #23

Some fine examples. R. Daneel Olivaw Feb 2013 #54

Thanks. The double standards are pretty breath-taking n/t Violet_Crumble Feb 2013 #120

Doesn't that depend on whether Shira is on the Left? aranthus Feb 2013 #124

No, I can't see why that's got anything to do with it... Violet_Crumble Feb 2013 #131

Ben White: "I do not consider myself an anti-Semite, yet I can also understand why some are." shira Feb 2013 #4

another Rightist/anti Arabist/ProOccupation site to promote? I see azurnoir Feb 2013 #5

Petra Marquardt Bigman is a longtime Meretz/Labor voter in Israel. shira Feb 2013 #6

she attacks a decade old article do please rage on about it n/t azurnoir Feb 2013 #7

Really being a Meretz or Labor voter doesn't have very much meaning when it comes to the occupation azurnoir Feb 2013 #8

They all "Zionists " King_David Feb 2013 #9

we'll just have to take your word for that azurnoir Feb 2013 #14

Its amazing how poorly Meretz fared in the last election shaayecanaan Feb 2013 #16

nah..we're just against creating another non stable anti democratic society ... pelsar Feb 2013 #17

It sounds as though you are opposed to Israel negotiating shaayecanaan Feb 2013 #18

aw.....what happend to my questions? pelsar Feb 2013 #19

The current Palestinian Authority is a dictatorship shaayecanaan Feb 2013 #20

so if i understand correctly ... pelsar Feb 2013 #21

re shaayecanaan Feb 2013 #24

I'm talking PA 1990's pelsar Feb 2013 #46

Not a lot in there thats true... shaayecanaan Feb 2013 #56

not the PLO leadership...the actual Palestinians in the street pelsar Feb 2013 #60

I dont think that I'm confused... shaayecanaan Feb 2013 #63

democracy..hamas and the PA? pelsar Feb 2013 #64

No. shaayecanaan Feb 2013 #76

so they are in the process? while they have declared they're against western democracy? pelsar Feb 2013 #78

No... shaayecanaan Feb 2013 #117

the helpless Palestinians... pelsar Feb 2013 #118

Now you're just contradicting yourself... shaayecanaan Feb 2013 #121

theres no contraction...just dont make assumptions..... pelsar Feb 2013 #125

re shaayecanaan Feb 2013 #127

start with me... pelsar Feb 2013 #133

Pelsar: "illilberal methods to protect a democracy" delrem Feb 2013 #134

democracy as its base. pelsar Feb 2013 #139

I thought you'd like it. n/t delrem Feb 2013 #142

What, you distrust those wonderful Western democracies? shaayecanaan Feb 2013 #135

..i dont trust any govt...none of them last pelsar Feb 2013 #140

In the long run, we are all dead shaayecanaan Feb 2013 #141

you skipped the point... pelsar Feb 2013 #144

no I didnt... shaayecanaan Feb 2013 #145

This is fascinating oberliner Feb 2013 #146

nope..i dont get it..... pelsar Mar 2013 #173

by the way... shaayecanaan Feb 2013 #147

well Bibi may have figured out a way of lessing the Meretz effect along with Ta'al just for fun azurnoir Feb 2013 #59

well Meretz did better than expected but the election outcome was more a barometer of Israeli societ azurnoir Feb 2013 #26

Secular occupation or Hamas/PLO totalitarianism? Which do you prefer? shira Feb 2013 #22

I love the way you define your choices azurnoir Feb 2013 #25

Please explain to me how Hamas/PLO totalitarian rule is better.... shira Feb 2013 #27

yes good question who benefits and how azurnoir Feb 2013 #28

Okay, how do Palestinians benefit from Hamas/PLO totalitarian rule? shira Feb 2013 #29

while I am sure you can give us a laundry list of PLO offenses azurnoir Feb 2013 #30

So what the PLO does to Palestinians is Israel's fault? That's rich... shira Feb 2013 #31

ah so all Arabs do similar things for the same reasons I see azurnoir Feb 2013 #41

Just saying that the rest of the mideast neighborhood shows how the PLO rules... shira Feb 2013 #49

ah so what you are saying is that Syria and Lebanon and Egypt show how Palestinians rule azurnoir Feb 2013 #50

In truth what you're asking is. aranthus Feb 2013 #32

Not really. I want to hear from Azurnoir how Palestinian rule benefits... shira Feb 2013 #33

I understand. aranthus Feb 2013 #34

so Palestinian self rule will include daily house raids with even children being pulled from their azurnoir Feb 2013 #40

If Hamas is in control, yes. That might happen. n/t aranthus Feb 2013 #42

seems a bit of if and might as opposed is, has, and will continue n/t azurnoir Feb 2013 #45

this is not about what the Palestinians want.... pelsar Feb 2013 #47

so you are claiming that when Palestinians are concerned Israeli military domination azurnoir Feb 2013 #39

You seriously underestimate the appalling conditions under a fascist, totalitarian PLO dictatorship. shira Feb 2013 #43

neither but you seem so okay with IDF abuse of Palestinians is that true or are azurnoir Feb 2013 #44

Take away the IDF and abuse vs. Palestinians is worse under the PLO & Hamas.... shira Feb 2013 #48

well if as you claim it is not about civil rights with me please name exactly what azurnoir Feb 2013 #51

IDF abuse, kidnapping, raids, murder... Solindsey Feb 2013 #53

What makes you think things would be better in Palestine under Hamas or PLO rule? shira Feb 2013 #55

A free and sovereign Palestine would have no place for Hamas. Solindsey Feb 2013 #57

yes all very true but you see Hamas is as always the final fall back azurnoir Feb 2013 #58

Hamas and settlements.... shira Feb 2013 #62

Thanks proved my point(s) azurnoir Feb 2013 #65

If you say so. Now how about an answer? n/t shira Feb 2013 #68

You never seem to have any answers for questions posed against you. Solindsey Feb 2013 #71

I don't avoid questions. Why was Hamas elected shortly after the Gaza pullout? shira Feb 2013 #72

It's difficult to answer a question bases on a wrong premise azurnoir Feb 2013 #79

Based on all that's happened since, would you do it again (be for Gaza 2005 withdrawal)? n/t shira Feb 2013 #80

yes of course why would you have the occupation maintained azurnoir Feb 2013 #81

I was asking you - I'm still for it as well. shira Feb 2013 #82

from my perspective the pull out was a help that Right Wing 3rd parties from the US azurnoir Feb 2013 #93

How do you think the US rightwing interfered in bringing Hamas to power? shira Feb 2013 #105

History proves you wrong. Israel pulled out of Gaza completely in 2005.... shira Feb 2013 #61

simple facts the election that made Hamas the majority in the Palelestinian Parliament not azurnoir Feb 2013 #66

why would the good people of gaza vote Hamas in after finally attaining their own land? shira Feb 2013 #67

It's so creepy... Solindsey Feb 2013 #69

In 2005, there was no blockade. All settlements were abandoned. Every last Jewish IDF soldier left. shira Feb 2013 #70

Maybe you just don't understand basic words being used in this discussion? Solindsey Feb 2013 #73

You can send as much food as you want to Gaza without Israeli interference oberliner Feb 2013 #74

"The idea is to put the Palestinians on a diet, but not to make them die of hunger." Solindsey Feb 2013 #85

That quote is from several years ago oberliner Feb 2013 #86

Israel has met the legal obligations that define ending an occupation. A blockade is not occupation. shira Feb 2013 #75

They're referring to beforehand. Shaktimaan Feb 2013 #148

Thank you for that because Israel extends it's authority azurnoir Feb 2013 #149

Completely true. Shaktimaan Feb 2013 #150

well that was nice but unconvincing azurnoir Feb 2013 #151

not really Shaktimaan Feb 2013 #152

Gaza's coastal waters are consided part of Gaza's territory like any other entity period azurnoir Feb 2013 #154

not really Shaktimaan Feb 2013 #153

guess you needed to post that twice? :) azurnoir Feb 2013 #155

well... Shaktimaan Feb 2013 #156

well I chalked it up to a posting glitch but I guess such things don't happen to you? azurnoir Feb 2013 #157

nope Shaktimaan Feb 2013 #158

well then by your own posted defination azurnoir Feb 2013 #159

what areas? Shaktimaan Feb 2013 #160

lol you threw Lebanon and Syria into the mix those are the areas azurnoir Feb 2013 #161

You're arguing that if any small part is occupied, then the whole nation is occupied shira Feb 2013 #162

ah no that wasn't my argument n/t azurnoir Feb 2013 #163

Then why say all Gaza is occupied when only parts are (under blockade)? shira Feb 2013 #165

perhaps you should read the entire sub-thread azurnoir Feb 2013 #167

Cynically abused, indeed...ad nauseam. K&R. n/t Jefferson23 Feb 2013 #52

Hypocrites ann--- Feb 2013 #126

No hypocracy at all. Shaktimaan Mar 2013 #174

According to Republican Chris Smith who has called for a hearing ( this Wednesday ) Jefferson23 Feb 2013 #143

House of Cards, the Oscars 2013 and Jewish power Jefferson23 Feb 2013 #166