On Israel and Palestine

[Shaktimaan]

16. You want I explain?

OK. I explain.

Firstly, as I already agreed, yes, this distinction between citizenship and nationality exists in Israel. Numbers 1-3 are pretty straightforward and I don't dispute them. Israel is an ethnic state that exists as the homeland of the Jewish people. Like Japan for the Japanese.

These terms don't violate their "normal" meanings. The term "nation" exists in the Torah as the description for the Jewish people. It's just confusing in the US bc the terms are used here synonymously.

Of course the courts must be involved in defining who qualifies to be a citizen under the citizenship law. That entails them deciding who is and isn't a Jew in the legal sense. There's nothing wrong with this, but you miss a key point. The benchmark for getting immediate citizenship is NOT to prove you're a Jew. The israeli authorities use the same rules as the Nazis did to decide who to persecute. Its brilliant. The question isn't if you're Jewish or not. It's whether or not you would have been oppressed by the Germans... Aka, if you're Jewish enough to attract anti-semitism then you're Jewish enough to claim israeli protection. So anyone with a Jewish grandparent, or spouse, etc., qualifies. Again: this isn't due to ethnicity, but as a way to be sure of not excluding anyone who might be persecuted as Jewish... Which is the whole point of Israel's existence.

Therefore, nationality status in Israel is not linked to residence in a territory, as is the norm in international law. Instead, the basic theocratic preference of the Israeli legal system establishes ethnic criteria as the grounds for enjoyment of economic, social and cultural rights.

The above is untrue. Firstly there is rarely ever an established "norm" in international law regarding how states do anything within their borders that doesn't violate a convention. That's because the UN charter guarantees SOVEREIGNTY as it's foundational keystone right in its charter. States get to decide who is a citizen however they want. And the ways vary greatly from state to state.

Israel happens to ALWAYS give citizenship to anyone born within its borders AND anyone finding themselves living on annexed land is offered it (east Jerusalem Palestinians.) So in truth israeli citizenship can be obtained via territorial, RoR (for Jews and near-Jews), as well as by just applying for it. (For immigrants who don't qualify for RoR.)

ALL citizens are guaranteed equality under the law. So no, enjoyment of rights has nothing to do with ethnicity. All citizens have the same rights. You don't need to be Jewish to qualify. Your nationality doesn't determine your rights as a citizen. And even RoR isn't based on theocracy. The widest definition is used.

Court rules Judaism, not place of birth, is grounds for Israeli citizenship
Israeli court denies petition by anti-coercion activist to be recognized as Israeli
without connection to Judaism, says citizenship is solely determined by law of return.
"In his ruling on Tuesday, Judge Daniel Fisch said that it was without a doubt that the petitioner,
Prof Uzzi Ornan, was born to a Jewish mother, and was therefore Jewish, which the law of return
states as the source of his citizenship."

Funny! Court rules Judaism is grounds for citizenship IN THIS ONE SINGLE SPECIAL CASE! You're using a grammatical quirk of common news writing headline abbreviations to make it seem as though this was a universal ruling. LAME! DISHONEST! Also, so lame.

This case is special because the petitioner was NOT born in Israel but in Palestine pre-dating Israel's existence. So that's why he can't claim geography. He was born before Israel had borders to be born within. If he was born post-48 in Israel, then THAT'S why he'd be israeli, regardless of his ethnicity.

This can get very picky and mean:

They're picky and mean just like the INS is. That's their job. Your example was of someone who admitted to lying and perhaps being there illegally. Following up isn't mean. It's their job. Grow up.

Numbers 5-6. More or less true. There's WAY more nationalities than presented though. Remember the Druze? They get cards too.

7. The separation of nations in the highest law of the land, describing how the Jewish nation is superior
and state recognized and all others are subordinate nations, has immense consequences and is the foundation for an apartheid state, prohibiting democratic redress.

OK, this statement and most everything in the link provided is junk. Just utterly untrue, baseless garbage. The bits that happen to be technically true are misleading... ie: "Non-Jews aren't allowed to purchase land." That's true. What's left out is that Jews aren't allowed to purchase land either.

Just remember this: NOWHERE does Israel state that the Jewish nation is superior and everyone else is inferior. If you need clarification on anything else this lunatic tried to convince you of then ask me specifically. Everything I read was lies, propaganda or banality dressed up like racism. (The non-israeli Palestinians are discriminated against because they're denied equal rights! ohmygerg. Well, they aren't citizens, are they? That's true of every non-citizen to every state but their own. Non-citizens living outside the state aren't supposed to get the same rights as citizens, ANYWHERE! In this same way I'm being discriminated against by Switzerland, who didn't grant me citizenship. Except in the Palestinians' case they're in a state of conflict with Israel.) Oh, and most states have a rule preventing you from taking over with the aim of dismantling said state. That's totally normal. In America they won't even let you in if you admit to being a Nazi or Communist Party member.

8. The unequal, asymmetrical law with respect to the rights of people according as their nationality has
immense practical consequences for peoples of the subordinate nationalities.

Really? Like wha... Ohhhh, you're right! This is the one really solid example of legal discrimination. Sorta. But to be fair it doesn't prevent reunification. You and your bride can always go to Palestine. Or you can bring in someone from virtually any other state you want. See, it's not that this law discriminates against non-Jews or even Arabs. It's that Israel's been in a state of semi-war with Palestine lately and it's kind of a security thing. Which in my opinion, though totally true, is not worth the awful cost in equal rights. It's a shitty law. But it's also recent and temporary. And only discriminates against the nations who would potentially send in a bride to kill Israelis. But I'll kinda give you this one as it's so blatantly unfair. But so far it's your only bullet with gunpowder in it and it's kinda a tiny one. It only applies to brides under 25 or husbands under 35. And it's not a ban. It's just not an automatic citizenship. It has to be reviewed and every year they let in most of the applicants. And it only deals with families from states at war with Israel. It's actually kinda reasonable really.

8b: OK. So what? Any israeli citizen can live wherever he wants in Israel or the settlements. By law no one can deny you real estate because of your nationality or religion or race or whatever. You can't BUY any land because it's almost all owned by the government and they won't sell it to you, ethnicity notwithstanding.

9: Yeah... Haha, sorry! That lame attempt at demonstrating that the JNF considers all Jews the same as "the nation of Israel" won't work. Try it over at Mondoweiss, they'll buy anything anti-Zion flavored, no matter how ludicrous. Seriously everyone. Look at this!

The People of Israel are the same as The Children of Israel.
B'nei Yisrael ("Children of Israel&quot can denote the Jewish people at any time in history.
Coupled with 8b, above, The Jewish National Fund

Here's the reality. No one can buy land in Israel regardless of ethnicity. Jews don't get some special "my children!" deal like we do at adorama. That's just reality. Same laws for everyone. (For the record though that was SUPER lame! How dumb do you think we are? If anyone ever buys that BS you cooked up, sue them for stupidity.)

10: Yes, the JNF is a shitty, racist organization. They still have to obey the law and lease you property even if you're not a Jew though. The government MAKES them, and then reimburses them with an equal value of land in the middle of the desert. (You know it's a fair deal because it sucks for everyone.) Except the non-Jewish person signing the lease. Because for him, equality! Even though the JNF would rather tell him to go blow, they can't. Because equal rights. Is that reality sinking in yet, finally?