Israel/Palestine

Shaktimaan

(5,397 posts)

77. Interesting.

Sat Dec 17, 2011, 08:28 PM

Dec 2011

So you equate the wholesale demonization of an entire culture with people criticizing an individual because of that person's beliefs? You see the problem inherent in this argument, yes? It is the same problem with arguing for the equivalency of the statements "Bill is cheap." and "Black people are cheap."

Regarding sites like rense, the issue is not that they offer the unwanted "truth" about Zionism or even that they are right wing, but that they are anti-semitic conspiracy theorists that promote bigotry and hateful lies. They are affiliated with people like David Duke and feature articles such as a recent one accusing the Talmud of endorsing pedophilia.

If you really think that papers like Haaretz are right wing while groups like Satmar and Neturei Karta are liberal then I fear you are confused to a point that no discussion here will end up fruitful for anyone.

The fact of the matter is that almost all Jews are Zionists. And regarding self-proclaimed anti-zionists I tend to side more with Martin Luther King's viewpoint "When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You are talking anti-Semitism." than I do with Arun Gandhi (The Mahatma's grandson) who wrote that Jews and Israel were the biggest players in a culture of violence that will destroy humanity.

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This forum is about to get a lot more interesting. [View all] ellisonz Dec 2011 OP

I no longer touch this subject on DU nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #1

I only dip in occasionally. ellisonz Dec 2011 #2

That's not correct, Nadin. The tent protests in Israel got covered in the I/P forum... Violet_Crumble Dec 2011 #3

This message was self-deleted by its author Tesha Dec 2011 #4

I think it's crucial for this forum to behave responsibly. ellisonz Dec 2011 #8

delete message Scurrilous Dec 2011 #5

Juries are drawn from the broad membership - star and non-star. ellisonz Dec 2011 #10

Agreed RZM Dec 2011 #6

Regarding I/P Posts in other forums? ellisonz Dec 2011 #7

Never posted there much RZM Dec 2011 #9

Here are the old rules: ellisonz Dec 2011 #11

New Rules ... USA_1 Dec 2011 #26

I'm not the host or rule maker dude. ellisonz Dec 2011 #27

I can't find a link to new rules for this group Violet_Crumble Dec 2011 #29

This is not true oberliner Dec 2011 #53

how does the host thing work? Mosby Dec 2011 #12

I applied to be temp host. Scurrilous Dec 2011 #13

All this temp hosting... ellisonz Dec 2011 #14

thx for the info Mosby Dec 2011 #15

Have you tried the different formats in My Account? ellisonz Dec 2011 #17

I'll try that, thx nt Mosby Dec 2011 #19

This message was self-deleted by its author Tesha Dec 2011 #18

I'll mess around with it and see, thx! nt Mosby Dec 2011 #20

I've had the same sort of issues with my iPhone... Violet_Crumble Dec 2011 #21

thx for the info Mosby Dec 2011 #16

Gee, Scurrilous Owlet Dec 2011 #28

Thanks. Scurrilous Dec 2011 #38

Just like beauty ... King_David Dec 2011 #84

''one of the most divisive topics on DU'' USA_1 Dec 2011 #22

These are not 'new rules' LeftishBrit Dec 2011 #23

Thanks For Your Reply USA_1 Dec 2011 #25

Lemme guess - you define 'informed and civil' Ruby the Liberal Dec 2011 #30

Haaretz USA_1 Dec 2011 #37

Name me a liberal Israeli source then, please. Ruby the Liberal Dec 2011 #39

Do A Google Search USA_1 Dec 2011 #40

I am quite familiar with the news outlets Ruby the Liberal Dec 2011 #41

I should add - it is easy to wholesale demonize a people Ruby the Liberal Dec 2011 #43

Pro Israel Demonize Me All The Time! USA_1 Dec 2011 #49

we don't demonize you... pelsar Dec 2011 #52

''we won't demonize you'' USA_1 Dec 2011 #58

Interesting. Shaktimaan Dec 2011 #77

demonization USA_1 Dec 2011 #79

You do get that rense is a blog and JPost is a news organization, right? Ruby the Liberal Dec 2011 #81

Fox is "news media" as well USA_1 Dec 2011 #86

it's like the twilight zone here sometimes Shaktimaan Dec 2011 #82

''Link it up please.'' USA_1 Dec 2011 #87

really? Shaktimaan Dec 2011 #88

Rense USA_1 Dec 2011 #90

Now you want to exclude the New York Times as 'Islamophobic'? Ruby the Liberal Dec 2011 #91

I said "include" not exclude USA_1 Dec 2011 #93

English is my first language Ruby the Liberal Dec 2011 #100

''amusing" USA_1 Dec 2011 #103

Their pro Israel slant must be the reason for the ongoing pissing match Ruby the Liberal Dec 2011 #105

why are you waffling? Shaktimaan Dec 2011 #108

Post removed Post removed Dec 2011 #112

Sounds like a quote from NK USA_1 Dec 2011 #115

Is that meant to reinforce NK? Shaktimaan Dec 2011 #117

NK's view on Zionism are based on the Bible USA_1 Dec 2011 #118

OK, let's make this simple... Shaktimaan Dec 2011 #114

You think Satmar and Neturei Karta are liberal? oberliner Dec 2011 #51

Those Are Anti-Zionist Jews USA_1 Dec 2011 #59

They are anti-Zionist, but not liberal or progressive oberliner Dec 2011 #64

You Are Correct USA_1 Dec 2011 #65

Being Jewish does not mean you can't be a Jew-hater oberliner Dec 2011 #67

''opposing Zionism does not in and of itself make one a "Jew hater". '' USA_1 Dec 2011 #69

"Israel's Defenders" Ruby the Liberal Dec 2011 #71

''Israel will only be restored when Messiah arrives. '' USA_1 Dec 2011 #73

Zionists don't believe what you say they believe oberliner Dec 2011 #75

... exclusionism ... USA_1 Dec 2011 #76

Check out this blog oberliner Dec 2011 #78

Tikkun Olam USA_1 Dec 2011 #80

seriously? Shaktimaan Dec 2011 #110

Antisemitism/Jew-hatred is a pyschological problem oberliner Dec 2011 #74

I think the reality of the issues at hand are getting muddied here. Shaktimaan Dec 2011 #83

I hear this charge a lot. Shaktimaan Dec 2011 #109

When you stand on a stage, hand in hand in solidarity with David Duke Ruby the Liberal Dec 2011 #66

''hand in hand with David Duke'' USA_1 Dec 2011 #68

It happened in Iran at the Holocaust Revisionist Conference in 2006 Ruby the Liberal Dec 2011 #70

''hand in hand'' USA_1 Dec 2011 #72

I want to thank you... holdencaufield Dec 2011 #85

... hopefully as a One State Solution USA_1 Dec 2011 #89

Psst - thinking single state isn't on the kashrut/halal list... Ruby the Liberal Dec 2011 #92

Those Whistling Dixie In 1865 Didn't Believe In A One State Solution USA_1 Dec 2011 #94

Yours is a pro-war position. The vast majority of Israelis and Palestinians... shira Dec 2011 #95

The vast majority of Palestinians would favor a one-state solution. bemildred Dec 2011 #96

Not a secular state... shira Dec 2011 #97

Don't change the subject. bemildred Dec 2011 #98

FYI, about the majority of Palestinians wanting sharia rule under a dictatorship... shira Dec 2011 #99

Do they keep lists of those obscure 30-year-old polls somewhere handy for when they are needed? bemildred Dec 2011 #101

The point is, most Israelis and Palestinians are against one secular state. n/t shira Dec 2011 #102

Your Delusionalism USA_1 Dec 2011 #104

You are comparing Israelis and Palestinians to North and South Vietnamese? oberliner Dec 2011 #106

Did you see upthread where she compared the conflict to the US Civil war? Ruby the Liberal Dec 2011 #107

They are hardly similar. Shaktimaan Dec 2011 #111

Peace Now are still active; and are ardent two-staters who wouldn't support much of what you say LeftishBrit Dec 2011 #113

Kudos to Peace Now For At Least Trying to Bring About Reconciliation USA_1 Dec 2011 #116

Ha'aretz is not a right-wing source. LeftishBrit Dec 2011 #42

Libertarians USA_1 Dec 2011 #50

But libertarians would *not* use the money saved from 'foreign wars' to solve American domestic LeftishBrit Dec 2011 #55

''help the rich'' USA_1 Dec 2011 #57

What I mean is that the right-wing think that the rich should have untrammeled rights to make money LeftishBrit Dec 2011 #60

Ironic. Avigdor Lieberman is not even close to being as extreme as Ron Paul. n/t shira Dec 2011 #61

I would agree with that - but then neither is Genghis Khan LeftishBrit Dec 2011 #62

''untrammeled rights to make money '' USA_1 Dec 2011 #63

As Ruby's already said, Ha'aretz is anything but an extreme RW source... Violet_Crumble Dec 2011 #44

Arutz sheva isn't merely a RW source. It's extremely bigoted Violet_Crumble Dec 2011 #31

Good point - but in which direction? Ruby the Liberal Dec 2011 #32

I don't care what side they're on Violet_Crumble Dec 2011 #33

And that is why this conflict has never been resolved. Ruby the Liberal Dec 2011 #34

This message was self-deleted by its author ellisonz Dec 2011 #24

Where can one find the new rules for this group? oberliner Dec 2011 #35

This forum has yet to organized. ellisonz Dec 2011 #36

A question... Violet_Crumble Dec 2011 #45

Well I think if you were to compare... ellisonz Dec 2011 #46

Yeah, I'm in agreement with you on that... Violet_Crumble Dec 2011 #47

Yep ellisonz Dec 2011 #48

I hope that there is a process oberliner Dec 2011 #54

I think this could be done. ellisonz Dec 2011 #56