This forum is about to get a lot more interesting.

[Shaktimaan]

83. I think the reality of the issues at hand are getting muddied here.

Very few people actually think that criticizing Israel or Zionism automatically makes one a Jew hater. (And certainly thinking that Palestinians are deserving of justice and humane treatment doesn't mark one as bigoted against Jews.) Far from it in fact, some of Palestine's biggest advocates and Israel's biggest detractors are Jews and/or citizens of Israel itself. That said, there is a HUGE difference between criticizing Israel for her policies and rejecting her right to exist altogether. And again, where those people who will even go so far as to reject the legitimacy of Zionism are concerned there is equally a HUGE difference between rejecting a political movement and actively hating Jewish people.

I think there is a lot of confusion regarding the term "anti-semitism" itself though. Ultimately Zionism is merely the assertion of self-determination for the Jewish nation. And to deny it as being a right that Jews possess on par with any other nation's right to the same IS undeniably anti-semitic in practice. It is critical to remember though that just because someone makes an anti-semitic statement or holds a racist belief does NOT inherently imply that they HATE Jews or other races. In my own experience anti-semitic statements are born of ignorance or confusion FAR more often than they originate from hate.

But there is really no way around it... any belief that singles Jews out and applies different standards to them as anyone else is inherently anti-semitic. And frequently and criticism that does the same regarding Israel has its roots in anti-semitic beliefs. Most of these people would deny that these beliefs are in any way anti-semitic and they certainly don't dislike Jews or segregate them mentally and the certainly don't think of themselves as bigoted or racist at all. And they probably aren't really. There are just many different kinds of discrimination out there and it is crucial to be able to recognize their existence, if not their application every time they appear.

Unfortunately it is these subtle instances of anti-semitism that are so dangerous these days. Because they masquerade as logical or even progressive ideology and live amongst those who find racism abhorrent, trying to dispute them can quickly trigger very emotional responses, aka: "Oh SURE, no one can criticize Israel without getting slammed as a racist by those Hasbarists trying to stifle debate!"

Tikkun, Orthodox, and progressive Jews all say: Palestinians are deserving of justice and humane treatment.

No they certainly don't. The groups that most virulently hate the Palestinians are Orthodox. Baruch Goldstein was Orthodox for example. Point being you can't group these general associations together by such specific beliefs.

Look at Rabbi Lerner for instance, who you admitted to admiring is an out-spoken critic of anti-Zionism and modern antisemitism that he perceives to have arisen among some leftists. He feels that the left often denies the existence of antisemitism and has written extensively defending Zionism and distinguishing legitimate criticism of the State of Israel from Israel-bashing and antisemitism; for example critiquing the left-wing anti-war ANSWER Coalition for the antisemitism that he and others believe is reflected in the rhetoric at ANSWER-sponsored demonstrations. He suggests ways in which progressives can fight antisemitism on the Left.