The Reason I Have Been Silent. [View all]

[Neoma]

This discussion thread was locked by Neoma (a host of the Feminists group).

Last edited Thu Feb 16, 2012, 04:39 AM - Edit history (1)

To warn you, the entire flame-war is so very convoluted that it's very hard to explain even a nutshell, without posting a novel. If you've ever wondered why moderators take so long in taking action, it's because they have to read novels and write novels to find out why there's a battle, and how to fix the battle. I cannot guarantee that the posts I point out won't be self-deleted. I took lots of screen-shots, so please ask if needed. To begin:

I have had other circumstances due to my emotional and physical health, total disruption of my vacation with my parents who lives 8 hours away, the travel time home, it being a holiday yesterday (on VALENTINE'S DAY, when I wanted to spend more time with my husband!) I had all ready said that I was waiting for an admin to respond to one of the co-hosts, and I have complete lack of trust in my co-hosts.

Now, a little about myself and how this got started. I used to only hang around LBN and goofed around in the lounge. Went away for long periods of time, but only because there was nothing to really fully attach me to this website. I didn't have any friends here in other words. The closest person I would have considered a semi-friend doesn't remember me. Then I subscribed to the feminist forum after I read a few books that angered me. I was revved up and ready to rumble! So they took notice.

Then I was told to go into the feminist forum to become co-host. I was surprised, but thought "Why the hell not?" I became co-host within the same day. Now, this part is very interesting to me. Tell me, who actually voted, and who is doing the voting? http://www.democraticunderground.com/11391225#post1 The only people who has voted for me, are current co-hosts. CrispyQ and seabeyond. The entire thread wasn't really a vote, it was more like an agreement of who should be hosts by Redqueen and the future co-hosts. I wasn't co-host or host very long at all before the flame-war. I was still on vacation, visiting my parents.Then redqueen quits, and they knew of the hierarchy. I did not get a PM asking if I would step down as host for someone better until they realized I could not be pushed around.

Now, for those of you that has been around this week, you know how this started. iverglas' defense of 'Gynergy Vampires', then her saying 'pearl clutcher', and then defending herself say 'but to call it a spade is a spade.' Oh yeah, almost forgot, "LGBTQILOLWWBBQ?" Now, I honestly don't know what these phrases mean, or their background history. Not only that, but I haven't even heard those phrases within my lifetime, and I'm not exactly sure if everyone else knew either. I thought iverglas' posts were getting a little out of hand, and seabeyond and laconicsax agreed via PM. Part of the reason is that she became very outraged at the personal vendettas against her. And so, she kept posting these kinds of posts:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1139&pid=1937
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1139&pid=1933
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1139&pid=1958
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1139&pid=1959

If you look on her transparency page and read her 17 hidden posts, I think you'll get the idea.

This post also shows her hatred of the entire LGBT forum. Not a few basic members, all of them. She also said in that post, "And yes, demanding that people who were born male be embraced by feminists as women in all senses of the concept, and setting the wolves on anyone who doesn't play along..." She elaborated on that, by showing a quote of a conversation between her and seabeyond. She means that she does not believe she should embrace trans women. Her PM to me about that, frankly scared me. And since I completely forgot about how you can alert PMs, I do believe that incredible PM should be seen.

To backtrack a little, she invited everyone to the H&M flame war. I don't believe that's appropriate, as it fed the flame-war into something much further than it should have gone. As iverglas was accusing people of character assassinating, I did a lot of reading, and that took a lot of time. (Admit it, all her posts are pretty long.) At this point I ask her to cease and desist. If there was foul play involved, I believed ceasing to post completely to see firm proof of their alert sniping and vendetta, as she calls it,would have helped end the flame war. She refuses, I state my case again, and I receive no reply. The first time this happened, was after I posted and pinned the thread Breathe. iverglas unpinned it, then pinned this thread up. At this point I don't exactly trust seabeyond. She said she supports me, then she flips. I don't exactly know when it happened, but maybe it's this.

Then I became very distraught over this thread most of all: New group request: Feminism & Diversity

I am saddened and outraged that they feel so unwelcome in our group that they feel as though they need to make another group, and everyone I talk to seems very burnt out and sad too.

laconicsax was barely online during the first end of the flamewar and I had to catch her up to the current point as to where we were. So I wrote a PM that took 6 grueling hours to write to her. I trusted her to do something with the information after she familiarized herself more with the flame-war and insert herself more into this and communicate more. Well to be frank, I didn't get a dose of helpfulness. So I start messaging people to find out what they thought of this flame war, went to gather information, asking for advice, and getting general emotional support for being pinned down with someone out of control and made this group into a small membership club when it's no such thing.



This is the type of behavior I will not tolerate, from a co-host or from anyone else. Nobody should post that someone is or isn't a man, or is or isn't black, or is or isn't white, or is or isn't a woman, or anything like that without some sort of proof. It's offensive to say that your opinions are invalid because you aren't a woman. It's highly inappropriate, especially for a co-host.

On to the gathering of information: How was I to know that this feud between the LGBT forum and the Feminist forum has been going on for years? That is the the pathetic part about this. I've heard of people holding grudges but whoa. I can only speculate on what happened to start this, because there's more than one explanation for it.

Now as to why I decided to remove and ban iverglas at the time that I did:

I was given the notion by all the co-hosts that I had to have votes to kick someone out and ban them, and if I did so I would somehow be breaking the rules. So I felt all this time as if I were in a bind, and I even almost felt guilty, but this is getting ahead of myself. Iverglas attempted to apologize for a lot less than she should have been, something about reduced duties because of her broken leg, and then strongly recommended not going into the Forum & Group Hosts thread because of all the LGBT hosts. She then gave me a link to an off-DU forum website. I really thought it was a bad idea. You are unaccountable on off-site forums and it can get nasty. I recommended to set up a chat room, because I figured two things. 1. Screen shots are easier to make on a chat room. 2. I thought our real problem might be because we cannot get information to each other fast enough, since we're also being separated through PMs. Maybe they wanted to start a process of diplomacy? I registered, I wanted to know what they wanted to say. Seabeyond and iverglas were all ready there. I only have one clear screen shot and two bad ones off my iPhone.



As there is no accountability, this is a clear case of a she-said, she-said situation. As I predicted it would be. I can only say, that instead of getting to the nitty-gritty, seabeyond and iverglas talked about who to ban in this forum. she called me a co-host, then said something to make me very angry with her. So I banned and blocked her, then she banned me. And so, the fireworks towards me began. Hilarity ensues, but only because you have to at this point.

Let's talk a bit about the rules on Democratic Underground, and how Democratic Underground works.

"About Group Hosts

Group Hosts perform a similar role to forum Hosts, but they have additional powers. 1) They can lock threads which they believe violate their group's stated purpose; 2) they can pin threads to the top of their group; 3) they can block out members whom they believe are not adhering to their group's purpose; 4) they can make other members Hosts of their group; and 5) they can remove any Host of their group that became a Host after they did."

There is nothing about votes. The only time they discuss votes is under how the jury system works. The group hosts aren't just here to help the admins with their jobs, they are here to do their jobs. As mentioned by a very special contact. I do not believe the juries are unfair. After this fiasco, I trust DUs rules and purpose a lot more heavily than I ever had.

Redqueen came out of the blue. Laconicsax gave me a message that redqueen wanted to join as a co-host. Well, I had nothing particularly against it, but I wasn't very clear headed about it either. I don't know redqueen, and very early in the flame-war I asked if she wanted her position back. Maybe she would handle the position better? She declined. I added her very close after the time I removed and banned iverglas. Before I had a chance to think about how I want to approach redqueen with what had happened, coup. I apologize that I do not provide screen shots of this happening, if the Forum & Group Hosts members wish to see them or any point I've made without evidence, please send requests. I would be happy to bury myself deep within my inbox. Though that may take a lot of time.

Redqueen: "As the only main host who was ever fairly nominated and agreed on, I am making this decision unilaterally, due to the fact that I was told the decision to block her was made unilaterally by the new host who was made so automatically as a function of the software."

I'm not sure I have to tell you how insulting this is. To how hard I've worked to end a feud that has been riling up people for too long. I have been goaded, insulted, pissed upon, lied about, tricked and not been treated fairly within my circumstance. I will not join a fight when I'm trying to calm it down. I have seen no effort by the current co-hosts or ex-co-host to even attempt to help me in public view to either calm down themselves or calm the flame war down. I have lacked administration support for many days, I sought advice, information and emotional support elsewhere, and now my co-hosts and ex-co-host have purposely directed the flame war onto me. You probably have no idea why or how I am resilient. But I'm not here to tell my life's story.

To those who are concerned about rule breaking! I shall quote Skinner's post, from the Forum & Group Hosts forum:

"Welcome Forum & Group Hosts! And thank you for your help!
This discussion thread is pinned.
First of all, thank you for volunteering. The New DU is all about getting our members involved in helping run the site, and serving as hosts in our forums and groups is a great thing you can do to help out.

You don't need a bunch of special knowledge in order to serve as a host of a forum or group. What you need is a good attitude, good judgment, and a desire to help out your fellow DU members. If you act in good faith and take responsibility for your actions, you ought to do just fine.


The Forum & Group Hosts Workspace

Whether you are serving as a host in a forum or group, you would be wise to take advantage of the wisdom of your fellow Hosts who also have access to this access-restricted workspace. Ask lots of questions, solicit other opinions, and share your own thoughts.

Please note that only Hosts have access to this workspace, but it is not a completely private forum. Hosts with access to this forum have not signed any confidentiality agreement, and Hosts are free to discuss with other people what goes on in this workspace and how Hosts do their job. As long as you remain professional and polite in your postings here, you shouldn't have any problems.


Forum Hosts vs. Group Hosts

Hosts can be assigned to either a forum or a group (or both). If you are a Forum Host, you only have one power: locking threads that violate that forum's statement of purpose. Group Hosts have additional powers, including the ability to lock a thread for any reason, pin threads in the group, block people out of the group, and add or remove other people as Hosts.

In short: Forum hosts have very limited powers. Group hosts have very broad powers. But regardless of whether you are a Forum Host or a Group Host, you would be wise to use your powers carefully and thoughtfully. Solve problems, don't create problems. And most of all, act in good faith.


Your Job

The job of a Host is to help a forum or group stay true to its purpose, which is reflected in its Statement of Purpose. As you do your job, you should be mindful of this Statement of Purpose, which can be found in the following places:

* On the "About" page for your forum or group, which can be found by clicking the button at the top of the forum or group.
* Under the Forums & Groups tab, listed along with the name of your forum or group.
* On the posting form whenever someone starts a new discussion thread in your forum or group.

This Statement of Purpose provides guidance for what posts are appropriate to be posted in your forum or group. However, you are not a robot who must mindlessly enforce that Statement of Purpose to the letter. Instead, you are empowered to use your own best judgment -- consider the Statement of Purpose, but also consider the feelings of people who are using your forum or group. How do they want to use the group? What can you do to help make the visitors to that group feel welcome and happy? It's okay to permit a little meta-discussion or off-topic stuff in any forum or group -- as long as it is good-natured, non-disruptive, and does not serve to overwhelm the group or distract from its primary purpose.

So, you should only serve as a Host in a forum in group where you are yourself a regular participant. If you participate in the forum or group you are hosting, you will have a better understanding of the norms, standards, and culture of that forum or group. Which will help you make better decisions about how to do the job.


Abuse of power

The DU Admins understand that this is a tough job. We know that sometimes a Host might make a different decision than we would, we know that sometimes things go wrong despite your best intentions, and we know that sometimes people make honest mistakes. That's totally fine. What matters to us is that you are doing the job in good faith, and trying to do the right thing.

Unfortunately, there may come a time when a Host does not do the job in good faith, does not have the best intentions, or exercises consistently bad judgment. If you think one of your fellow hosts is not doing the job in good faith, please let the administrators know immediately. You can send us an email, or you can click the Alert Abuse on a post here in the Hosts Forum.

The DU3 system is based on trust, and we believe it is absolutely necessary that everyone in a position of power does their job in a good-faith way. If the DU Administrators believe you are abusing your power, or exercising consistently bad judgment, we will remove you as a Host. We may even revoke your posting privileges. And, on that cheery note...


Thank you

Thank you, again, for volunteering to serve as a DU Host. We are grateful for your help.

The DU Administrators."

To my concerns about the co-hosts:

The DU Community Standards state: "It is the responsibility of all DU members to participate in a manner that promotes a positive atmosphere and encourages good discussions among a diverse community of people holding a broad range of center-to-left viewpoints." Members who demonstrate a pattern of disruptive behavior over time and end up getting too many of their posts hidden by the jury (measured by raw number or percentage) may be found to be in violation of our Terms of Service. If you seem to be ruining this website for a large proportion of our visitors, if we think the community as a whole would be better off without you here, if you are constantly wasting the DU Administrators' time, if you seem to oppose the mission of DU, or if the DU Administrators just don't like you, we will revoke your posting privileges. Remember: DU is supposed to be fun — don't make it suck.



Now my dear co-hosts, I am removing all of you, but I will not ban you or anyone else unless it is very clear to do so because of verbal abuse, bullying, provoking, etc. (This goes the same for people who are not hosts.) I am giving you a chance. I am locking all threads that has caused disruption. And I wish to make something clear. I have not harmfully provoked you. I did not re-pin my Breathe thread. I did not re-ban iverglas. I did not remove seabeyond along with iverglas, I did not un-ban Creekdog, I did not ban redqueen immediately after she staged a coup. If I have done any crime, it is to re-pin my thread announcing that I am not resigning at this time repeatedly to the top after you have un-pinned it.

I have tried to have patience with all of you, but I'm sad to say, none of you has been good co-host material. Since I have worked on this thread from 9am to 11:20pm, I will wake up tomorrow hoping that this has cleared up questions. Hoping that I am not repeatedly attacked for attempting to promote peace between both parties, If only for a short while... and to bring up the point of 'both' parties, everyone who comes into this group is part of the group. It's disrespectful and rude to bring this into every comment you disagree with.

Peace.


Edit: PS. CrispyQ wanted to quit, I asked if she wanted to catch up on what's happening, and she has not responded since. I see no harm in removing her as well, if she wanted to quit anyways.