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Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
22. Please alert Skinner that MIRT is a violation of the Thirteenth Amendment.
Fri Feb 6, 2015, 01:27 PM
Feb 2015

An evil corporation (Democratic Underground LLC) is getting people to do its work without pay. Work without pay is involuntary servitude. This is what brave men died at Gettysburg to stop!

The serious answer to your post is that courts have never interpreted "involuntary" the way you do. It refers only to a legal compulsion. It excludes cases where the person has agreed to do something.

Issues have been raised about whether the Thirteenth Amendment is violated by compulsory jury duty or by military conscription. Both involve coercion by the government and are not based on any voluntary act of the person involved.

In the Amazon case, by contrast, the government is not compelling anyone to do anything. In fact, it's the workers who want to involve the government's power, asking it to compel the staffing company to pay them for the screening time.

Furthermore, the workers have all voluntarily agreed to work there. Each of them is free to say "I don't voluntarily agree to spend time going through this screening procedure," but in that case the company is free to say "Then you're fired." The Thirteenth Amendment does not mean that someone can take a job with a private employer but refuse to perform some of the duties of that job.

I realize you're not saying that they should be able to refuse, only that they should be paid for the time they spend. I personally think they should be paid. But we have to recognize that their legal right comes only from the FLSA, and that it was amended to exclude activities like the security screening. The answer is still to persuade Congress to change the law, rather than to criticize Obama or his Supreme Court appointees.

She sounds like a Republican. GeorgeGist Feb 2015 #1
her job will be to implement the policies and views of barack obama nt msongs Feb 2015 #10
I will never support a drug warrior for exective office in the Justice Dept.... mike_c Feb 2015 #2
Why? progressoid Feb 2015 #3
corporatist lawyer jimruymen Feb 2015 #4
She sounds like another of Pres Obama's disappointing appointees. Not a progressive rhett o rick Feb 2015 #5
Nope. Hell, even his Supreme Court nominees voted to allow wage theft by Amazon. Scuba Feb 2015 #9
I saw that. Erg! nm rhett o rick Feb 2015 #14
No, they recognized that Congress had voted to allow it. Jim Lane Feb 2015 #15
Their job is to overrule Congress if appropriate. That's a big part of what the SCOTUS is for. Scuba Feb 2015 #16
Only in cases of violations of the Constitution. Jim Lane Feb 2015 #18
Exactly. Are you arguing that the law allowing wage theft is Constitutional? Scuba Feb 2015 #19
Are you arguing that the Constitution requires overtime pay? Jim Lane Feb 2015 #20
Work without pay sure sounds like "involuntary servitude", but maybe that's just me. Scuba Feb 2015 #21
Please alert Skinner that MIRT is a violation of the Thirteenth Amendment. Jim Lane Feb 2015 #22
Your MiRT example is wholly inapposite. merrily Feb 2015 #28
the fact that she reached office under our current system of government.... Adam051188 Feb 2015 #6
I thought class wars began thousands of years ago, and almost always with government being of the merrily Feb 2015 #29
touche Adam051188 Feb 2015 #31
I agree. I don't like this choice for Attorney General mountain grammy Feb 2015 #7
Next, you'll be getting a "Greenwald-Snowden '16" tattoo on your arm. Fuddnik Feb 2015 #8
Been there, done that. project_bluebook Feb 2015 #11
Paulist have taken over ! geeez Cryptoad Feb 2015 #12
I don't support legalization of marijuana, either, unless you release ALL black and brown men Liberal_Stalwart71 Feb 2015 #13
Your characterization of the OP is indefensible. Jim Lane Feb 2015 #17
I don't give a fuck about Rand Paul or what he thinks. As long as he's Liberal_Stalwart71 Feb 2015 #23
"Case closed!" Not really, you're using a associational and/or genetic fallacy friendly_iconoclast Feb 2015 #24
There is nothing you can tell me, no article you can post, or write that would EVER lead me to Liberal_Stalwart71 Feb 2015 #25
Pointing out that a racist is correct on *one* subject isn't giving them a character reference friendly_iconoclast Feb 2015 #32
Good examples. I remember making the same point about NAFTA. Jim Lane Feb 2015 #30
If Paul said that 2+2=4, those who pointed out that he was correct in that instance would be... friendly_iconoclast Feb 2015 #33
Our interlocutor seems bent on avoiding actually discussing what Riker brought up friendly_iconoclast Feb 2015 #34
I DON'T SUPPORT RACISTS!!!! Liberal_Stalwart71 Feb 2015 #26
ITA on releasing and wiping clean JustAnotherGen Feb 2015 #27
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