Gun Control & RKBA

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)

136. The states should have more control locally

Sun Apr 7, 2013, 02:13 PM

Apr 2013

That's how democracy is supposed to work. The Federal governments job is to keep the country safe and stable. A national gun registry in no way impinges on the rights of states or individuals. It helps track guns used in crimes and helps LE apprehend criminals. You say it has been shown to be ineffective for LE. Care to explain how?
If you really think that 2A provides a bulwark against a tyrannical government, then we obviously live in completely different realities. It isn't about whether "folks like it or not". It's about which century "folks" are living in. If you and others who buy into such nonsense, think that you stand as a "bulwark" against anything beyond wanting a more sane and peace loving society, then you are delusional.
A bunch of preppers and other libertarian nutjobs are not going to take on some mythical "tyrannical government" with a few 50 cals and a bunker.

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ACLU opposes national gun registry [View all] hack89 Apr 2013 OP

*blink* krispos42 Apr 2013 #1

this will be ignored by many pro gun control peeps bossy22 Apr 2013 #2

ACLU sometimes defends "rightie" causes.......... rdharma Apr 2013 #3

No - they defend the Constitution. Which is a bipartisan cause. hack89 Apr 2013 #4

Great. If no one ever shot anyone with guns, we would not have to register them either. jmg257 Apr 2013 #6

Except by law, criminals cannot be forced to register their guns. hack89 Apr 2013 #8

Great. So we have something else to charge them with when they are caught committing crimes... jmg257 Apr 2013 #14

If they are not deterred by laws against murder, assault and armed robbery hack89 Apr 2013 #18

Then they can spend even more time in jail. Willing to take the risk, then do the time. jmg257 Apr 2013 #22

That is too weak an argument for me to support it. nt hack89 Apr 2013 #29

That's understandable. The possibility of govt confiscation because of registration is a concern jmg257 Apr 2013 #51

That and it won't prevent gun deaths. It is useful only after the fact. hack89 Apr 2013 #52

I am of the opinion that registration will be VERY effective. I believe it will jmg257 Apr 2013 #54

We will see what happens. hack89 Apr 2013 #57

Agree for the most part - to a point... jmg257 Apr 2013 #59

Another Newtown will simply polarize America more hack89 Apr 2013 #60

Doesn't Illinois have a form of gun registration? Jenoch Apr 2013 #144

I don't know...how many illegal guns have PDs in Illinois removed from circulation? jmg257 Apr 2013 #150

Do you think there are Jenoch Apr 2013 #155

Well - see what you can dig up. jmg257 Apr 2013 #156

There are tens of millions Jenoch Apr 2013 #157

Depending on who owns them now, I gess. jmg257 Apr 2013 #159

Huh? Jenoch Apr 2013 #166

Come across a person with a gun, it should be registered...a simple check jmg257 Apr 2013 #167

They already do that. Jenoch Apr 2013 #168

Okaaayyyyy...so having them registered is/would be no big deal, then. jmg257 Apr 2013 #170

I'm questioning Jenoch Apr 2013 #171

Yep - so it seems it would help a lot. jmg257 Apr 2013 #172

no it wouldn't gejohnston Apr 2013 #173

Yes it would. jmg257 Apr 2013 #180

Law enforcement checks Jenoch Apr 2013 #174

Of course it helps if the gun is registered. jmg257 Apr 2013 #178

"Little on the down side"? Jenoch Apr 2013 #189

But IF the majority of the people agree - your fears would be unfounded. jmg257 Apr 2013 #193

The problem with Jenoch Apr 2013 #201

Criminals are not required to register their guns. nt hack89 Apr 2013 #175

Thanks! So when one is discovered to have an unregistered (to him) gun, or an jmg257 Apr 2013 #179

Why not simply remove the gun because the person cannot legally own guns? hack89 Apr 2013 #181

That's a good idea...probably happens alot. Registration offers even more crime-fighting tools, jmg257 Apr 2013 #186

I am not afraid of anything. I do not own guns out of fear. hack89 Apr 2013 #191

As mine were merely pointing out the benefits of registration. jmg257 Apr 2013 #192

There are many things I fear. None of which are the reason I own guns hack89 Apr 2013 #194

Not trying hard at all. Many fear registration due to confiscation, privacy issues, etc. jmg257 Apr 2013 #199

I just like to poke holes in targets. hack89 Apr 2013 #200

Yep - no doubt about that! nt jmg257 Apr 2013 #202

More jails! Bigger jails! More jail time! Lock 'em all up! Enrich the Prison Industrial Complex! cherokeeprogressive Apr 2013 #91

More guns! Bigger mags! More dead bodies! Lock and Load! Enrich the gun manufacturers! jmg257 Apr 2013 #109

Convicted criminals can't be charged for not registering their guns krispos42 Apr 2013 #82

Yep...thanks. Nt jmg257 Apr 2013 #83

5th amendment covers for 2nd jimmy the one Apr 2013 #37

You need to look closer at U.S. v. Freed hack89 Apr 2013 #48

I already DON'T have to register mine. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2013 #24

Neither do I. premium Apr 2013 #33

It's illegal to register guns in Florida. spin Apr 2013 #53

Rec. AnotherMcIntosh Apr 2013 #154

These same talking points showing up elsewhere...... rdharma Apr 2013 #9

ACLU website ... hack89 Apr 2013 #10

So the ACLU went over to the Dark Side? Eleanors38 Apr 2013 #89

Quit raining on his high. CokeMachine Apr 2013 #169

So, would you be OK with registering all guns not on private property? Starboard Tack Apr 2013 #55

They are called concealed carry permits hack89 Apr 2013 #58

What about open carry? Starboard Tack Apr 2013 #73

I do not favor open carry. hack89 Apr 2013 #74

A stupid idea? Starboard Tack Apr 2013 #75

So illegal gun owners will tether their illegal guns to their cell phones hack89 Apr 2013 #78

Not quite. Starboard Tack Apr 2013 #79

How will it saves lives? hack89 Apr 2013 #80

How will it save lives? Starboard Tack Apr 2013 #94

It won't ever happen hack89 Apr 2013 #102

Let's hope you are wrong. Starboard Tack Apr 2013 #103

Will this be foisted on LE also? Untill they are required to use it, I for one will not. oneshooter Apr 2013 #81

Why should they be exempt? They work for us. Starboard Tack Apr 2013 #96

I can actually agree with you. premium Apr 2013 #98

So you went with a tether idea because of a lack of power clffrdjk Apr 2013 #110

That's only one scenario Starboard Tack Apr 2013 #112

Possible yes doable no clffrdjk Apr 2013 #113

There are plenty of times I turn my phone off. shedevil69taz Apr 2013 #185

I think that's a very good idea. Starboard Tack Apr 2013 #195

How do you define an illegal gun? WinniSkipper Apr 2013 #105

Good question - 2 answers Starboard Tack Apr 2013 #111

Thanks for replying WinniSkipper Apr 2013 #114

How is a lost gun illegal? Starboard Tack Apr 2013 #119

That definition makes sense WinniSkipper Apr 2013 #132

The purpose would not be to track people. Starboard Tack Apr 2013 #137

since the chance and history gejohnston Apr 2013 #139

NDs? What are they? Starboard Tack Apr 2013 #142

negligent discharge gejohnston Apr 2013 #143

That's a pretty lame argument WinniSkipper Apr 2013 #145

Which argument is lame? Starboard Tack Apr 2013 #149

tell that to the gun banners Duckhunter935 Apr 2013 #151

I say it to all. Starboard Tack Apr 2013 #158

semi automatic shotguns are common for duck hunting gejohnston Apr 2013 #162

Well that's just silly IMO. Takes all the sport out of it. Starboard Tack Apr 2013 #163

FWS, and I'm guessing their Canadian counterparts, gejohnston Apr 2013 #164

Mag capacity limits still apply. The semi-auto shotgun simply allows faster follow-up AtheistCrusader Apr 2013 #213

That's one of the reason I like 2 barrels Starboard Tack Apr 2013 #216

"and I doubt you will find too many in favor of either CC or OC in major urban environments. " WinniSkipper Apr 2013 #190

Absolutely! Starboard Tack Apr 2013 #197

I understand what you you say your goal is WinniSkipper Apr 2013 #165

No, that is not what I envisage. Starboard Tack Apr 2013 #198

"The only guns that need to be retrofitted would be those intended for use in populated areas" WinniSkipper Apr 2013 #209

A populated area is one where people live. Starboard Tack Apr 2013 #210

Good idea. rrneck Apr 2013 #217

What happens when Jenoch Apr 2013 #223

Well you see, rrneck Apr 2013 #225

Exactly. Starboard Tack Apr 2013 #224

Jesus Tack, you live on a boat and you didn't see that hook? rrneck Apr 2013 #226

Are you kidding? Starboard Tack Apr 2013 #227

Well, lets have a look at it... rrneck Apr 2013 #228

OK, let us indeed have a look Starboard Tack Apr 2013 #230

Well, here's what you'll have to do to make it work. rrneck Apr 2013 #231

Do they do Jenoch Apr 2013 #146

Guns are not a problem in England. Starboard Tack Apr 2013 #160

that is assuming mutual combat gejohnston Apr 2013 #161

Yeah, good luck with the GPS tracking. AtheistCrusader Apr 2013 #183

I agree. Starboard Tack Apr 2013 #188

And, again, the only guns that would be registered... krispos42 Apr 2013 #86

I don't include 12 gauge shotguns. Starboard Tack Apr 2013 #99

That's a state matter; I may object, but only have a say in the state where I live... Eleanors38 Apr 2013 #90

This is an area that needs to be a federal matter. Starboard Tack Apr 2013 #100

It is not states' "rights," but states' powers, as rights are individual, not communitarian. Eleanors38 Apr 2013 #123

The states should have more control locally Starboard Tack Apr 2013 #136

actually it doesn't track guns used in crimes for these reasons gejohnston Apr 2013 #138

Guns are not usually left behind at crime scenes. Correct. Starboard Tack Apr 2013 #141

rifling marks change over time gejohnston Apr 2013 #147

I said registration has not been shown to be effective... Eleanors38 Apr 2013 #187

No insults intended, unless the glove fits, of course. Starboard Tack Apr 2013 #196

??? Do you want registration? If so, make your case.. Eleanors38 Apr 2013 #214

so you are supportive of the police state? bossy22 Apr 2013 #16

Why is there concern over differences in the records for BGC? jmg257 Apr 2013 #5

They think the present standard for NIC background checks should be the standard for all checks. hack89 Apr 2013 #7

But there are NO unlicensed gun sales. ALL sale need to go through an FFL... jmg257 Apr 2013 #11

They are talking about private sales. The "gun show loophole" as it were. nt hack89 Apr 2013 #12

Please re-read...there are NO "PRIVATE SALES"... jmg257 Apr 2013 #17

I think this is the section that concerns them hack89 Apr 2013 #25

Thanks, hack, appreciate the patience in clearing that up! I did indeed not notice that. nt jmg257 Apr 2013 #36

So I would have to go through a FFL when my FIL gifted my MILs .22 pistol Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2013 #126

Naa - you'd probably be good...long as you are law-abiding... jmg257 Apr 2013 #135

What do you mean, "If I'm law-abiding"? Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2013 #140

Why not? How does anyone know if you can lawfully own firearms w/o a BC? jmg257 Apr 2013 #148

"ACLU is saying ........" rdharma Apr 2013 #13

Are you saying the ACLU didn't say what they said? hack89 Apr 2013 #15

ACLU didn't say what they said? rdharma Apr 2013 #20

I get it now, premium Apr 2013 #21

Follow the posted link......... rdharma Apr 2013 #27

So because it's coming from a site you don't approve of, premium Apr 2013 #31

I've noticed a pattern....... rdharma Apr 2013 #39

"Poisoning the well." Lizzie Poppet Apr 2013 #40

And your conclusions could be wrong. premium Apr 2013 #41

You think repeating "rightie talking points" ....... rdharma Apr 2013 #43

What "rightie talking points"? premium Apr 2013 #45

It's not just "righties." Lizzie Poppet Apr 2013 #26

So now you are trying to tie the ACLU to the RW. Nice. nt hack89 Apr 2013 #28

When the ACLU agrees more with a "rightie" web site sylvi Apr 2013 #19

You make zero sense. AtheistCrusader Apr 2013 #184

I've just noted how some DU posters seem to get their talking points......... rdharma Apr 2013 #204

I agree that it was strange insofar as AtheistCrusader Apr 2013 #205

"I wouldn't automatically assume malice, but there are other patterns that can correlate" rdharma Apr 2013 #206

strange bedfellow for the nra jimmy the one Apr 2013 #23

Yup - they are concerned with protecting civil liberties. hack89 Apr 2013 #30

Strange bedfellows, indeed! rdharma Apr 2013 #32

So? premium Apr 2013 #34

I didn't agree with the ACLU....... rdharma Apr 2013 #35

Yeah I did. premium Apr 2013 #38

Wow. I guess we know where you stand on equal rights now. sylvi Apr 2013 #56

I've begun challenging the "progressiveness" of banners... Eleanors38 Apr 2013 #93

I've never considered disarming the populace as progressive. sylvi Apr 2013 #104

I did. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2013 #63

Abrogation of civil rights? Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2013 #128

So you support freedom of speech armueller2001 Apr 2013 #85

ACLU Policy Statement #47 4Q2u2 Apr 2013 #50

+1 LAGC Apr 2013 #92

I've been telling people who call me asking for money for the ACLU this for almost 20 years... slackmaster Apr 2013 #42

"I may have to reconsider my position on the ACLU" rdharma Apr 2013 #44

Do you have any proof that he's not telling the truth? nt. premium Apr 2013 #46

Proof? rdharma Apr 2013 #47

Yes, proof. premium Apr 2013 #49

Essentially calling someone a liar should require at least a modicum of proof. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2013 #62

Burden of proof is not on me. nt rdharma Apr 2013 #64

Sure it is. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2013 #66

Nuh uh! rdharma Apr 2013 #67

You essentially called him a liar. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2013 #76

Like I said..... believe him if you like! nt rdharma Apr 2013 #77

See pot. See stirrer. Smell stench. nt Eleanors38 Apr 2013 #95

Yes, proof. You are implying that either I am a regular supporter of the ACLU and falsely stating... slackmaster Apr 2013 #124

"Regular supporter of the ACLU" rdharma Apr 2013 #125

And you are most certainly not fooling anybody here. premium Apr 2013 #127

"either"? rdharma Apr 2013 #129

Not at all, premium Apr 2013 #130

Editing out your "Freudian slip"? rdharma Apr 2013 #133

Nope, premium Apr 2013 #134

Thanks for the clarification. You are calling me a liar. slackmaster Apr 2013 #131

You really should reconsider. LAGC Apr 2013 #87

Wow. A thoughtful, well-written, courteous reply. Thank you. slackmaster Apr 2013 #107

^^^ Last paragraph especially ^^^ Eleanors38 Apr 2013 #232

interesting enough, people aren't talking about this part of their concern bossy22 Apr 2013 #61

The Daily Caller? rdharma Apr 2013 #65

herpa derp nt sylvi Apr 2013 #68

Daily Caller........ derp! nt rdharma Apr 2013 #69

Herpa derp nt sylvi Apr 2013 #71

Virginia mountainman picked up on the nebulous definitions of 'transfer' and started a petronius Apr 2013 #72

That's interesting, and a bit surprising. I'd love to see it as direct policy statement petronius Apr 2013 #70

Another reason to support the ACLU... ileus Apr 2013 #84

Hell yeah. LAGC Apr 2013 #88

I would like to add ACLU to my list, along with... Eleanors38 Apr 2013 #97

Privacy vs the militia clause of the 2nd Amendment. Buzz cook Apr 2013 #101

You need to catch up on the law. Start with Heller. NT hack89 Apr 2013 #106

x2 AnotherMcIntosh Apr 2013 #117

-4 times Buzz cook Apr 2013 #120

Did I miss something? Straw Man Apr 2013 #121

Oh, those right-wing, tea-bag, ALCU kooks. You know, the ones who spout the NRA talking points. AnotherMcIntosh Apr 2013 #108

Oops! ACLU doesn't think much of NRA's "School Shield" proposal either! rdharma Apr 2013 #115

Liberals are always independent thinkers. I wouldn't expect anything less from the ACLU. AnotherMcIntosh Apr 2013 #116

And I don't expect the righties here to support the ACLU's objections to ....... rdharma Apr 2013 #118

I hate this!! markboxer Apr 2013 #122

This I don't understand. Sometimes we have to support things for the better good of our society. demosincebirth Apr 2013 #152

They have always made privacy a top concern. hack89 Apr 2013 #153

What's wrong with, just, common sense legislation? Maybe "common sense" is the problem demosincebirth Apr 2013 #203

We all define common sense differently hack89 Apr 2013 #215

You have a drivers liscense, you're in a data base. Driving is a privelege not a right. This is demosincebirth Apr 2013 #229

Gun registration would be bad for society slackmaster Apr 2013 #182

no group is right on every issue. bowens43 Apr 2013 #176

And you wonder why gun owners fight "reasonable gun control." nt hack89 Apr 2013 #177

Thank you for posting. It kind of undercuts the claim that no one is arguing for confiscation AnotherMcIntosh Apr 2013 #211

finally. ACLU. Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2013 #207

+1 (nt) NYC_SKP Apr 2013 #208

Did the ACLU oppose the NFA registry? AtheistCrusader Apr 2013 #212

The thing about using the NFA as a template is that individual can't register guns hack89 Apr 2013 #218

Use the same mechanism that was used to register them at the inception of the '34 NFA. AtheistCrusader Apr 2013 #219

It is hard to imagine gun registration ever becoming the law of the land hack89 Apr 2013 #220

UBC's are a great start, and will help, but AtheistCrusader Apr 2013 #221

The best way to cut down on straw purchases is to crack down on dirty gun dealers. hack89 Apr 2013 #222