Gun Control & RKBA

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)

53. I don't blame you, I blame the author of that article.

Thu May 16, 2013, 05:57 PM

May 2013

There was no cost, not a single one of the shootings that author analyzed caused additional PROBLEMS during the shooting.

In two instances, they helped. That's not a wash. (And two instances the responders were praised by local police, and in one case by the Congress)

The success rate IS low. That is a reflection of a couple factors, primarily that less than 9% of the population carries, resulting in not many people being AROUND with a gun when needed. Also, as in the case of Tyler, Tx, we see a common thread of bad outcomes of people with pistols going up against people with rifles. That's a shitty proposition. The only thing worse would be to be completely unarmed. Pistols aren't for fighting people with rifles.

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Conflicting ideas... [View all] rrneck May 2013 OP

So why is it that we are supposed to expect somebody to rush in and bodily tackle an active shooter flamin lib May 2013 #1

You're probably referring to the Gabby Giffords shooting. rrneck May 2013 #2

You recall wrong. He dropped the mag and had to try for another . . . flamin lib May 2013 #3

The first responder with a firearm did precisely the right thing. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #4

Because he said so in an interview. He came to the scene, saw a man with a flamin lib May 2013 #6

You infer a lot. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #16

(I'll save you the trip: the number is ZERO) flamin lib May 2013 #22

let me preface by saying Bazinga May 2013 #44

So it's a case of risk:benefit ratio. flamin lib May 2013 #48

I don't blame you, I blame the author of that article. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #53

My apologies. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #46

If you say so. rrneck May 2013 #5

If you say so. Almost never happens fut it feeds the fantasy. And that's all it is, a fantasy. nt flamin lib May 2013 #7

Fantasy on both sides of the issue. nt rrneck May 2013 #8

All I can reply with is that Virginia Tech has a campus security force that flamin lib May 2013 #9

SWAT team and all those "good guys with guns" didn't make a difference. gejohnston May 2013 #10

Reagan's secuity was all 'roun him. nt flamin lib May 2013 #11

take that up with the Treasury Dept. gejohnston May 2013 #12

So rrneck May 2013 #15

The point is that the good guy with a gun is flamin lib May 2013 #17

I already told you armed intervention was risky. nt rrneck May 2013 #24

Have you got an answer to my question or not? nt flamin lib May 2013 #30

I'll agree with you again. rrneck May 2013 #32

Answered you here: flamin lib May 2013 #35

No one ever said that responding to an active shooter with a gun is a magic talisman that prevents AtheistCrusader May 2013 #52

If Reagan had been shot more than once you would have a point. Jenoch May 2013 #78

You make a good argument for the elimination of all semi-automatics Starboard Tack May 2013 #82

let me fix it for you gejohnston May 2013 #83

That's a big if. And we can discuss hypotheticals all day. Starboard Tack May 2013 #85

thing is, loonies are a very small minority gejohnston May 2013 #88

Thankfully, they are a small minority Starboard Tack May 2013 #90

policy shouldn't be based on black swans gejohnston May 2013 #92

Not really. rrneck May 2013 #84

A pump is a semi-automatic, at least IMO. Starboard Tack May 2013 #86

They're all semi automatic rrneck May 2013 #87

I don't consider a double barreled semi-automatic Starboard Tack May 2013 #91

Semi-automatic Straw Man May 2013 #98

actually, there are fewer gejohnston May 2013 #89

Fewer maybe, but nothing like few enough, which would be zero. Starboard Tack May 2013 #94

so dishonesty is OK? gejohnston May 2013 #95

I didn't say dishonesty is OK Starboard Tack May 2013 #100

the impression was there gejohnston May 2013 #101

Keeping kids safe is the broader discussion Starboard Tack May 2013 #102

The best way to do that is improved security in schools gejohnston May 2013 #103

Am I missing something here? Australia? Starboard Tack May 2013 #104

the point was that gejohnston May 2013 #105

There is no panacea and nobody AFAIK thinks there is. Starboard Tack May 2013 #106

This message was self-deleted by its author gejohnston May 2013 #107

Can you name an innocent bystander killed by a stray tackling? Robb May 2013 #13

Nope. rrneck May 2013 #14

You'll have to translate for me, I think. Robb May 2013 #18

Not only is the notion rrneck May 2013 #21

This is a definition of absurd whith which I am not familiar. nt flamin lib May 2013 #25

I believe you. nt rrneck May 2013 #26

Well, at least you agree it's a contributor, even if a minor one. Robb May 2013 #27

Of course it's a contributor. rrneck May 2013 #28

Ya' might wanr to check out these. flamin lib May 2013 #20

So why does unarmed intervention make sense? rrneck May 2013 #23

Introducing another gun into a shootout cannot, under any conceivable circumstance, flamin lib May 2013 #29

It doesn't matter. rrneck May 2013 #34

That's not an answer, it's a capitulation. Explain how the only limiting factor to lethality flamin lib May 2013 #37

It doesn't. rrneck May 2013 #40

Because since the mid '70s 4000 people have been killed by terrorists on US soil flamin lib May 2013 #43

In what percentage of those deaths were more than 10 rounds fired? Bazinga May 2013 #47

Gungeon methodoloy #4: Minute. flamin lib May 2013 #51

I didn't say the number was insignificant. Bazinga May 2013 #74

I guess that 4000 figure includes rrneck May 2013 #58

WHAT THE FUCK DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH THIS THREAD? flamin lib May 2013 #60

None. rrneck May 2013 #65

Okay, nothing will ever work every single time so lets just ignore something flamin lib May 2013 #68

Limiting mag capacity will do nothing. ntt rrneck May 2013 #69

Logic, reason and physics don't exist in your world do they? flamin lib May 2013 #70

Gee, thanks. rrneck May 2013 #72

Conceivable circumstance: rrneck May 2013 #36

I call bullshit. nt flamin lib May 2013 #38

Maybe. rrneck May 2013 #39

It's bullshit because the only way the the "field of fire" could be clear enough to not flamin lib May 2013 #41

Define completely empty rrneck May 2013 #42

Naaaa, not chaseing that red herring. It was you who postulated an empty field of flamin lib May 2013 #45

Shooting vest? Straw Man May 2013 #50

*sigh* Another red herring. My example pointed out the differences in hi cap flamin lib May 2013 #54

Wrong question. Straw Man May 2013 #56

Sorry but the laws of physics, logic and reason say limiting magazine capacity flamin lib May 2013 #59

me personally? gejohnston May 2013 #62

Really reaching aren't we? flamin lib May 2013 #66

why not? gejohnston May 2013 #71

It's been good and and it's been real but not really good for either of us. flamin lib May 2013 #73

Answers Straw Man May 2013 #76

Counting bullets. rrneck May 2013 #57

Who does this damage? flamin lib May 2013 #61

How many children died that day? rrneck May 2013 #67

But yet AtheistCrusader May 2013 #55

Well, in some cases flamin lib May 2013 #63

I was with you on the first 3-4 items. I'm sure all of them happen. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #64

Sorry. Straw Man May 2013 #49

Collateral damage? Straw Man May 2013 #77

Saying Loughner was changing magazines Jenoch May 2013 #79

That's simple. Magic. discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2013 #81

Don't you know....guns kill people! ileus May 2013 #19

mass murder isn't even the tip of the iceberg bowens43 May 2013 #31

Yes, that's another sack of taters. nt rrneck May 2013 #33

Not so easy these days... jeepnstein May 2013 #75

In this age... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2013 #80

Yep. rrneck May 2013 #96

I often find myself... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2013 #97

Lots of people suffer from tunel vision. rrneck May 2013 #99

shooting back is hateful, rude, and inconsiderate. ileus May 2013 #93