Gun Control & RKBA
In reply to the discussion: The meaning of the Second Amendment (One Perspective) [View all]jimmy the one
(2,712 posts)beevul: Amendment 2 says that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, BECAUSE a well regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state.
You write ambiguously; adding 'individual' prior to 'right' is what you're trying to say, & that's the scalia spin, subverted from the previously accepted historical interpretation for 200+ years. It's fractured reasoning from scalia.
beevul: It does NOT say, that ONLY in the case of militia members does this apply.
Well benjamin oliver (cited by scalia) did: Benjamin Oliver, Right of an American Citizen, 1832: "The provision of the constitution, declaring the right of the people to keep and bear arms, &c. was probably intended to apply to the right of the people to bear arms for such (militia-related) purposes only, and not to prevent congress or the legislatures of the different states from enacting laws to prevent the citizens from always going armed. A different construction however has been given to it."
beevul: It says with no qualifiers, what right belongs to the people, what government may not do to that right, and spells out why government may not do that. Beyond that, {2ndA} grants no rights. It protects protects rights which belong, as the amendment states, to the people, not just the militia.
Sit back beevul, & behold the wonder of modern day information dissemination:
1 word net: bill of rights: statement of fundamental rights and privileges (esp first 10 amdmts to Constitution)
2 AmerHeritage: bill of rights: formal summary of rights and liberties essential to a people or group of people.
Bill of Rights first ten amendments to the US. Constitution, 1791 to protect certain rights of citizens. Bill of Rights A declaration of certain rights of subjects, enacted by the English Parliament in 1689.
3 web,1828: a list of rights; a paper containing a declaration of rights..
4 WmRawle, View of Const, 1825: Of the amendments already adopted, the eight first in order fall within the class of restrictions on the legislative power, some of which would have been implied, some are original, and all are highly valuable.. Remedies will always be found while the protection of individual rights and the reasonable safeguards of society itself form parts of the principles of our government.http://www.constitution.org/wr/rawle_10.htm
The US bill of rights confers both individual rights as well as limitations on congress, the rub is that the individual right in 2ndA pertains to an individual right (aka duty then) to belong to well reg'd militia.
beevul: To think that amendment 2 grants the right to belong to the militia, something that congress was granted power to create and call forth previous to the writing of the bill of rights...is ignorant at best, starting with "grants a right"
That is exactly what the british contend their 1689bor does, & scalia then contends in heller that 2ndA derived from english bor1689; 2ndA written 1791 was followed ~6 months later by the 1792 Militia Act, which described how american white males were to exercise their right to bear arms, if/when congress/pres wanted.
beevul: .. no amount of word salad, creative interpretation, distraction diversion or dishonesty can change that.. With me so far?
When used as a counter to word phlegm, word salad has to suffice, & I'm eons ahead of where you'll ever be.
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