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jmg257

(11,996 posts)
106. You did read what I wrote, right?
Fri Jun 28, 2013, 03:38 PM
Jun 2013

The Militia Act of 1792, Passed May 8, 1792, providing federal standards for the organization of the Militia.

An ACT more effectually to provide for the National Defence, by establishing an Uniform Militia throughout the United States.
I. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That each and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States, resident therein, who is or shall be of age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia, by the Captain or Commanding Officer of the company, within whose bounds such citizen shall reside...

VII. And be it further enacted, That the rules of discipline, approved and established by Congress, in their resolution of the twenty-ninth of March, 1779, shall be the rules of discipline so be observed by the militia throughout the United States, except such deviations from the said rules, as may be rendered necessary by the requisitions of the Act, or by some other unavoidable circumstances. It shall be the duty of the Commanding Officer as every muster, whether by battalion, regiment, or single company, to cause the militia to be exercised and trained, agreeably to the said rules of said discipline.


More recently

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied
males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section
313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a
declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States
and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the
National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are -
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard
and the Naval Militia;
and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of
the militia who are not members
of the National Guard or the
Naval Militia.


On militia vs large standing armies...
Mr. Gerry — This declaration of rights, I take it, is intended to secure the people against the mal-administration of the government; if we could suppose that in all cases the rights of the people would be attended to, the occasion for guards of this kind would be removed. Now, I am apprehensive, sir, that this clause would give an opportunity to the people in power to destroy the constitution itself. They can declare who are those religiously scrupulous, and prevent them from bearing arms. What, sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty.


Madison
Should an army in time of peace be gradually established in our neighbourhood by Britn: or Spain, declarations on paper would have as little effect in preventing a standing force for the public safety. The best security agst. these evils is to remove the pretext for them.


1789-91
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State...

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and...

The President shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several states

And on duty to serve in the militia...
Jackson
Mr. Jackson said, “that he was of the opinion that the people of America would never consent to be deprived of the privilege of carrying arms.” “In a Republic every man ought to be a soldier, and prepared to resist tyranny and usurpation, as well as invasion…”.


Compare this notion to our complete acceptance of HUGE standing Armies; and the notion that the only well-regulated militia is now a federal entity, of volunteers, armed by the government.


1789

To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;


More recently...

(a) Use of Armed Forces in Major Public Emergencies. - (1) The
President may employ the armed forces including the National Guard,
in Federal service, to -
(A) restore public order and enforce the laws of the United
States ...
(i) domestic violence
(B) suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence,
unlawful combination, or conspiracy...


If you don't see the differences, you are not looking hard enough...
This fellow didn't have clue about modern 21st century military weaponry, eh? rdharma Jun 2013 #1
How about 21st century communications networks? friendly_iconoclast Jun 2013 #8
I think that would come under the 1st Amendment........ rdharma Jun 2013 #11
yes, I see - Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2013 #18
This bong fellow must have really PWNED you! rdharma Jun 2013 #20
You should know!! CokeMachine Jun 2013 #42
Maybe not but... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2013 #21
I'm sure that has special meaning for you! rdharma Jun 2013 #26
"Errrrp derrrp!" You have acid reflux? Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #28
Funny! Those PJ-wearing guerillas always had more than small arms........ rdharma Jun 2013 #32
you are confusing the VC with the gejohnston Jun 2013 #34
NO. I'm not confusing the VC with the NVA! rdharma Jun 2013 #36
You didn't major in military history did you? gejohnston Jun 2013 #40
Yeah! Like Bison bombers naval cruisers and helicopters & everything! Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #38
Oh! I've got to save this one before the edit! rdharma Jun 2013 #39
So says the king of editing. CokeMachine Jun 2013 #43
Riiiiiight! rdharma Jun 2013 #47
Glad you agree!! nt CokeMachine Jun 2013 #48
OH? rdharma Jun 2013 #49
I really like... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2013 #54
Is he really hanging his hat on Bison-52s? That's it? Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #78
What in the world... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2013 #80
You're quite welcome! nt Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #77
The Girandoni Repeating Rifle appeared in the US prior to the ratification. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #85
Also the puckle gun. beevul Jun 2013 #87
Well, it's clear that Justice Story thought so, anyway. Deep13 Jun 2013 #2
but there was a national marine corps gejohnston Jun 2013 #4
Marines meant soldiers who worked... Deep13 Jun 2013 #7
Never call a marine "soldier". gejohnston Jun 2013 #14
Some have been proud to be called soldiers of the sea. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #57
I only know of the modern ones, they generally had the view. gejohnston Jun 2013 #58
The guy who played Scottie in the original Star Trek took six MG rounds on Juno Beach. discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2013 #59
yeah. gejohnston Jun 2013 #60
most fortuitous discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2013 #61
Eddy Albert was the real deal at Tarawa. It's good to see that he had a successful film career. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #62
In the 18th c. the USMC had none of its present day glory. Deep13 Jun 2013 #66
Owning a gun was a right... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2013 #72
amusing side note... Deep13 Jun 2013 #67
kind of like the high school my kids went to gejohnston Jun 2013 #83
1776 - first amphibious raid at Fort Nassau, Bahamas. They captured the Governor and took 100 guns. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #56
Legal experience and credentials from two hundred years ago Auggie Jun 2013 #3
Post removed Post removed Jul 2013 #150
This message was self-deleted by its author Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2013 #5
I've got to say..... the 3rd Amendment has kept the redbacks from quartering troops at my house! rdharma Jun 2013 #6
This message was self-deleted by its author Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2013 #9
Apparently it's being honored (honoured).......... rdharma Jun 2013 #10
This message was self-deleted by its author Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2013 #12
Court Jesters! rdharma Jun 2013 #13
This message was self-deleted by its author Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2013 #15
You know what? I can almost hear the little bells on your hat ringing! rdharma Jun 2013 #16
you must be smoking some really good shit, dude. Peace Out. Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2013 #17
Does that mean no encore? rdharma Jun 2013 #19
Would that be in his bongbong? nt CokeMachine Jun 2013 #44
What's up with all your "self deletes"? rdharma Jun 2013 #81
This message was self-deleted by its author Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2013 #82
half right, half wrong on joseph story jimmy the one Jun 2013 #22
It was refering to unorganized militias as in gejohnston Jun 2013 #23
no legs to stand on jimmy the one Jun 2013 #25
don't think so gejohnston Jun 2013 #29
"It's obvious he's speaking of the militia" discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2013 #24
Why? Isn't that already made clear in the 2nd Amendment? nt rdharma Jun 2013 #27
No. The right referenced in 2A is that of the people, not of the militia. Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #30
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, ........ rdharma Jun 2013 #33
old hats jimmy the one Jun 2013 #37
I'm afraid not. beevul Jun 2013 #63
Saul Cornell too jimmy the one Jun 2013 #31
diet Koch gejohnston Jun 2013 #35
Funny discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2013 #84
If you are going to cite authorities, you are out-numbered. Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #41
hocus pocus jimmy the one Jun 2013 #46
number four gejohnston Jun 2013 #50
LOL! Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #52
Poof-f-f-f... Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #51
sharp & inept jimmy the one Jun 2013 #55
Is President Obama a "pro gun quack"? He thinks it is an individual right. nt hack89 Jun 2013 #70
That lot *never* answer that one, do they? friendly_iconoclast Jun 2013 #74
repuable? gejohnston Jun 2013 #53
Yawn!! CokeMachine Jun 2013 #45
more weird reasoning from gunfolk jimmy the one Jun 2013 #64
In what world... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2013 #69
incomprehension abounds jimmy the one Jun 2013 #73
nice dodge discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2013 #75
Indeed, it is as if you cannot read the language. hansberrym Jul 2013 #117
Good grief, try reading. beevul Jun 2013 #76
Careful - Congress was NOT given power to create the militias - only to organize/regulate jmg257 Jun 2013 #79
Thats a good point. beevul Jun 2013 #86
benjamin oliver & more jimmy the one Jun 2013 #88
Just some BS discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2013 #89
semantics jimmy the one Jun 2013 #92
Maybe one day... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2013 #93
Quit feeding the trolls in the basement!! CokeMachine Jun 2013 #94
You bring up an interesting & curious point... jmg257 Jun 2013 #95
I began this aspect... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2013 #98
bear arms in bear country jimmy the one Jun 2013 #99
Don't take this the wrong way but... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2013 #100
and Keep arms in bear country (west of the Blue Ridge) hansberrym Jul 2013 #118
"keep" arms in bear country hansberrym Jul 2013 #119
Uh huh. beevul Jun 2013 #90
Without the right to life, and thus the ability to defend it no other rights matter. ileus Jun 2013 #65
There probably aren't too many people like that. Most societies have very jmg257 Jun 2013 #71
Never underestimate the importance of the regulated militias. And of course the necessity to remove jmg257 Jun 2013 #68
are you saying we should ditch emipre and MIC gejohnston Jun 2013 #91
your light is fluorescent jimmy the one Jun 2013 #96
Just a poem... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2013 #97
rkba polls jimmy the one Jun 2013 #101
We the people spoke... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2013 #104
yet another pandora's box jimmy the one Jun 2013 #109
Times change, Fashions change,... DWC Jun 2013 #102
Equal responsibilities??? Human Nature??? jmg257 Jun 2013 #103
Please enlighten me DWC Jun 2013 #105
You did read what I wrote, right? jmg257 Jun 2013 #106
Yes, I read what you wrote - attentively DWC Jun 2013 #112
damn the militia jimmy the one Jun 2013 #113
Your high volume of verbiage DWC Jun 2013 #115
#1 & 2, in this regards, are answered in what I wrote. jmg257 Jul 2013 #116
'the right to bear arms!' jimmy the one Jun 2013 #107
were there any liberals or Dems on the court? gejohnston Jun 2013 #108
no cigar jimmy the one Jun 2013 #110
I have seen some pretty pro corporate opionions on the part of Stevens gejohnston Jun 2013 #111
Do you understand and believe in Democracy? discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2013 #114
all hans on deck jimmy the one Jul 2013 #120
You could not be more funny if you tried hansberrym Jul 2013 #121
all hans go back below decks jimmy the one Jul 2013 #122
That's more like it. hansberrym Jul 2013 #123
rubbing it in jimmy the one Jul 2013 #124
Rub some more, of course PA's is closer. hansberrym Jul 2013 #125
Good try!! CokeMachine Jul 2013 #126
Yawn again CokeMachine Jul 2013 #127
Ex attorney & professor research 2Tocqueville Jul 2013 #128
Let's discuss a few things discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #129
This is a strange take on a portion.... jmg257 Jul 2013 #130
Agree on your first point, but not the second hansberrym Jul 2013 #132
Yep - "to keep" certainly makes it more iffy. jmg257 Jul 2013 #137
But what supports the "only" interpretation? hansberrym Jul 2013 #138
And the debates in congress. No mention of any use for bearing arms jmg257 Jul 2013 #140
And no mention that the RKBA was understoood as exclusively for militia service hansberrym Jul 2013 #142
A reasonable person concludes that the primary reason for the second amendment jmg257 Jul 2013 #147
That is all well and good, but your argument is that the militia is the ONLY purpose to hansberrym Jul 2013 #156
When did I make that argument?? Nt jmg257 Jul 2013 #165
See my post # 168 n/t hansberrym Jul 2013 #169
The idea that without restrictions "bear arms" must mean hansberrym Jul 2013 #144
"Restrictions" were on govt, not the terms used. jmg257 Jul 2013 #146
The facts always show the primary importance of the militias, and that they jmg257 Jul 2013 #148
Madison rejected PA Minority? hansberrym Jul 2013 #158
Madison rejected the PA minority terms of a broader purpose restriction... jmg257 Jul 2013 #163
The idea that without restrictions "bear arms" must mean hansberrym Jul 2013 #167
Depending of Course on the meaning of bear arms in the second. jmg257 Jul 2013 #170
...the right of the people to keep and serve in the militia, shall not be infringed ? hansberrym Jul 2013 #173
Ok...a number of people will say the meaning of to keep and bear arms jmg257 Jul 2013 #174
People will say anything, but what proof can those people offer? hansberrym Jul 2013 #176
What proof can either side offer? Numerous examples support both. jmg257 Jul 2013 #177
The problem is that the Heller dissent insisted on an rkba exclusively for hansberrym Jul 2013 #181
Agreed. No exclusivity(?) to the terms. jmg257 Jul 2013 #182
Not sure what you mean "to the terms" -do you mean keeping and bearing arms? hansberrym Jul 2013 #184
Of course A1/S8 talks of the people keeping arms..."organizing arming & disciplining the militias", jmg257 Jul 2013 #185
Scott: "nor can an equivalent be demanded" hansberrym Jul 2013 #188
Thanks - I didn't know there was a fund involved in getting someone to take your place. jmg257 Jul 2013 #189
was this thing typical? hansberrym Jul 2013 #194
While we are at it... jmg257 Jul 2013 #131
free state hansberrym Jul 2013 #133
2ndAmendment Mythology Speaks jimmy the one Jul 2013 #134
Take your meds hansberrym Jul 2013 #139
Which states were not "free"? hansberrym Jul 2013 #143
free state, CW, or virginia, or all of above jimmy the one Jul 2013 #151
Forgive me, I forgot that you cannot read. hansberrym Jul 2013 #154
tench coxe brings up the militia, why? jimmy the one Jul 2013 #135
Why do you continue to conflate proposals from the states hansberrym Jul 2013 #141
whoosh jimmy the one Jul 2013 #149
just lame hansberrym Jul 2013 #153
gun guru & guncite back me up jimmy the one Jul 2013 #161
Where else indeed hansberrym Jul 2013 #166
I'd vote for State being one of the 13 states in the union, and MAYBE also the Republic. jmg257 Jul 2013 #152
well, which states were not free? hansberrym Jul 2013 #155
States that were "not free" were those without a republican form of govt. jmg257 Jul 2013 #157
Yes, same for all in that it describes the character of the state, country. or government. hansberrym Jul 2013 #159
From our posts today, I am even more sure that state means 1 of 13 or 50... jmg257 Jul 2013 #160
Your contentions thus far: hansberrym Jul 2013 #162
I don't think I ever said rkba was limited to service in a state militia. jmg257 Jul 2013 #164
OIC, it was those other guys hansberrym Jul 2013 #168
Why would any govt "compel all its citizens to bear arms"? jmg257 Jul 2013 #171
Why do you ask? (again) hansberrym Jul 2013 #172
Because bearing arms was often used to refer, specifically, to a militia role jmg257 Jul 2013 #175
And what of Keep arms? And what of those instances where persons spoke of the right to bear arms hansberrym Jul 2013 #178
See #177 please...And ill respond below to the rest. Nt jmg257 Jul 2013 #179
It is clear to me there were other uses of bear arms and keep arms. jmg257 Jul 2013 #180
If you do not care about the main point of contention in Heller, why bother? hansberrym Jul 2013 #183
Why bother? Cause I think it is interesting as hell. jmg257 Jul 2013 #186
for your reading pleasure hansberrym Jul 2013 #190
Thanks (Again)! I'll check out Aymette, and some others too! jmg257 Jul 2013 #191
unmitigated gall re silveira jimmy the one Jul 2013 #192
Thanks, Jim, for the heads up... nt jmg257 Jul 2013 #193
poor Jimmy, was Breyer also lying when he said... hansberrym Jul 2013 #195
more lies jimmy the one Jul 2013 #196
yeah, but they are all yours! hansberrym Jul 2013 #197
to arms jimmy the one Jul 2013 #136
poor rebuttal jimmy the one Jul 2013 #187
priceless hansberrym Jul 2013 #198
poor lies...you are losing your touch. hansberrym Jul 2013 #199
Missing the obvious discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #200
cruel irony, a reason to be discontented jimmy the one Jul 2013 #201
Yes mythology! discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #202
jimmy doesn't just miss the obvious, he pretends it is not there hansberrym Jul 2013 #203
delusionary jimmy the one Jul 2013 #204
that about sums your arguments up -delusionary hansberrym Jul 2013 #205
Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2013 #145
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Gun Control & RKBA»The meaning of the Second...»Reply #106