Gun Control & RKBA

montanto

(2,966 posts)

13. "Do you honestly think the killers of agent Terry would not have a gun otherwise?"

Thu Feb 2, 2012, 11:55 AM

Feb 2012

Why speculate about an alternative ending to the story? We have the one we have. The ATF let the guns into exactly he hands that they wanted them in. Not having thought about what would happen next, the whole thing went sideways. So, the ATF was trying to control guns alright, but not doing a very good job of it. Why should law abiding citizens have to pay for what the ATF fucked up? Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Guns in the wrong hands are likely to come to grief. ATF put the guns in those "wrong" hands. We don't need to imagine another scenario.

So, here's a quiz. Choose the best answer:

A. The ATF fucked up, lost track of the guns, some people died because of it.

or

B. Guns kill people.

or

C. The ATF is totally blameless.

or

D. Oh, look, a unicorn!

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Holder on the hot seat tomorrow.... [View all] AzWorker Feb 2012 OP

How come? nt gateley Feb 2012 #1

Testifying about the ATF "Fast and Furious" program. TheWraith Feb 2012 #2

Well, heads SHOULD roll on that one. WTF were they thinking? Thanks -- I thought that was probably gateley Feb 2012 #3

They supposedly were doing it to try and track smugglers. TheWraith Feb 2012 #4

They surely should have been better coordinated (or whatever) regardless of their motive. But gateley Feb 2012 #6

Face-palm is often a suitable substitute. PavePusher Feb 2012 #7

What about the convictions and indictments that have come down. I guess they count for nothing if Hoyt Feb 2012 #9

That's like saying the Iraq War was worth it in the end because it toppled Saddam Hussein... friendly_iconoclast Feb 2012 #10

What about Brian Terry's family? They're calling it "abominable, reckless, nonsensical." friendly_iconoclast Feb 2012 #11

Give us a break. Do you honestly think the killers of agent Terry would not have a gun otherwise. Hoyt Feb 2012 #12

"Do you honestly think the killers of agent Terry would not have a gun otherwise?" montanto Feb 2012 #13

ATF was trying to stop gun trafficking. That goal is laudable. Clearly could have done better. Hoyt Feb 2012 #14

"...there are a number of indictments already, and 2 convictions." And a couple of hundred deaths. friendly_iconoclast Feb 2012 #25

Oh, and don't forget the State Department. jeepnstein Feb 2012 #28

Oliver North was trying to get US hostages back when he sold arms to Iran. friendly_iconoclast Feb 2012 #29

They probably would have had guns. No-one is arguing that. PavePusher Feb 2012 #15

Well, let's apply same standard to S&W, Colt, Glock, your local gun shop, you if guns stolen, etc. Hoyt Feb 2012 #17

Please state the criminal act they are taking to supply criminals. PavePusher Feb 2012 #18

No problem liberal_biker Feb 2012 #19

Naw, I'm arguing this was a sting -- if it had worked, Most of us would have cheered. Hoyt Feb 2012 #20

Sigh.... liberal_biker Feb 2012 #21

Weaver was/is a terrorist-- only open for interpretation if you believe in "friends" of Aryan Nation Hoyt Feb 2012 #32

What charges was he convicted on, again? friendly_iconoclast Feb 2012 #38

Really? liberal_biker Feb 2012 #40

A "sting" involves actually tracking the object, recovering it, and charging them.. fucking duh. X_Digger Feb 2012 #22

With over 20 indictments and already 2 convictions -- it served its purpose. More are coming. Hoyt Feb 2012 #33

How many deaths make it worthwhile? X_Digger Feb 2012 #36

Sometimes you need to break a truckload of eggs to make one omelet.... n/t friendly_iconoclast Feb 2012 #39

"...it served its purpose." REALLY??? discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2012 #44

You just can't make a point without showing your animosity towards gun owners rl6214 Feb 2012 #24

Is the statement incorrect? You can search for discussion supporting Weaver, and blasting ATF. Hoyt Feb 2012 #30

Can you point to anything that shows the "gun culture" thinks Weaver is a "saint"? rl6214 Feb 2012 #34

Anything claimed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. And you've presented none. friendly_iconoclast Feb 2012 #37

"You just hate the ATF and anyone who tries to control guns." Prove it. friendly_iconoclast Feb 2012 #26

......YOU SPEAK SUMERIAN!?! Callisto32 Feb 2012 #42

I will- right after I get through with Linear B.... friendly_iconoclast Feb 2012 #43

"You just hate the ATF and anyone who tries to control guns." Pacafishmate Feb 2012 #46

This would almost be a reasonable post if it not for a couple of statements rl6214 Feb 2012 #23

"It was necessary to illegally traffic in guns (with scores of deaths as a minor side effect)... friendly_iconoclast Feb 2012 #27

Who were you quoting and repying to? rl6214 Feb 2012 #31

Sorry, that was a parody of certain viewpoints (not yours) seen here. friendly_iconoclast Feb 2012 #35

I don't believe in drumming up crime to fight crime. Callisto32 Feb 2012 #41

who is going to question him? other government employees... ileus Feb 2012 #5

+1 n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2012 #8

tru dat Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2012 #16

Is Brian Terry's family going to question Holder? cbrer Feb 2012 #45