Gun Control & RKBA
In reply to the discussion: The meaning of the Second Amendment (One Perspective) [View all]jimmy the one
(2,714 posts)hans: .. the text of the second amendment reads "to keep and bear arms" and there is no one saying that means to "keep and serve in a martial role". Tenche Coxe commenting on what became the 2A: "The people are confirmed by the next article in their right to keep and bear their private arms." His usage is decidedly non-idiomatic.
Hans above cited Tench Coxe ref: Federal Gazette, June 18,1789, Tench Coxe, friend of James Madison, writing in support of the Madison's first draft of {2ndA in} the Bill of Rights.
here is madison's first draft of 2ndA, written 10 days prior to tench coxe' quote above: June 8, 1789: The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country; but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms shall be compelled to render military service in person.
Contradicting himself, hans claims that tench coxe could not have been speaking of 'bearing arms' in a martial/militia role, & then paradoxically hans cites tench coxe citing a quote where james madison clearly spoke of 'bearing arms' as pertaining to martial/militia concerns.
Hans2: .. "free state" means more than just a state of the union.
Hans above implying the scalia version of 'free state' as meaning 'free country' rather than the separate 13 free states of maryland, newjersey etc.. (Note that 'State' could indeed refer to either a particular state or the state of america back then, that's not the point here tho.)
.. hans, pls explain why you think madison was referring to a 'free country' or whatever you were wanting to say, since it appears madison was referring to a bill in the virginia gen assy:
To the Honorable the General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Virginia
A Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments .. We the subscribers , citizens of the said Commonwealth, having taken into serious consideration,.. etc ... version of the Virginia Act for Establishing Religious Freedom and the 1779 draft are available on this site http://religiousfreedom.lib.virginia.edu/sacred/madison_m&r_1785.html