Gun Control & RKBA
In reply to the discussion: The meaning of the Second Amendment (One Perspective) [View all]jimmy the one
(2,714 posts)hans: Why do you continue to conflate proposals from the states and drafts of the BOR in Congress?
Evidently this is going over your head; For one who professes (or bluffs) to know so much about this, albeit with roundabout vague allusions & deflections, you don't seem to comprehend that sam adams was referring to the bill of rights, not any massachusetts proposal.
GunGuru Halbrook confirms what I contend: Samuel Adams' Proposal at the Massachusetts Convention - The demand for a bill of rights reached a high pitch in Massa. before the ink on the proposed {US} Constitution had time to dry. In the Massa. ratifying convention, .. Sam Adams .. introduced the following amendments: "And that the said {US} Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; or to raise standing armies, unless when necessary for..;
The Massachusetts convention ratified the {US} constitution on Feb7,1788 without demanding a declaration of rights. Nonetheless, other than the standing army provision, Adams' proposal would be seen as embodying the 1st, 2nd, and 4th Amendments to the Constitution when they were considered by Congress 1789. http://constitution.org/2ll/schol/jfp6ch04.htm
pro gun website 'guncite' also supports what I say: .. what was to become the second amendment was not considered to condition having arms on the needs of the citizens in their militia capacity, but was seen as having originated in part from Samuel Adams' proposal (which contained no militia clause) that Congress could not disarm any peaceable citizens: "It may well be remembered, that the following "amendments" to the new constitution of these United States, were introduced to the convention of this commonwealth by ... SAMUEL ADAMS.... {E}very one of the intended alterations but one have been already reported by the committee of the House of Representatives, and most probably will be adopted by the federal legislature. And that the said constitution be never construed to authorize congress ... to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms .. http://www.guncite.com/journals/haladopt.html
Guncite confirms that Sam Adams did not mention 'militia' in his first draft of 2ndA, & gunguru halbrook as well confirms that Sam Adams' proposal embodied what later became the 2ndA. The very proposal Tench Coxe is obviously referring to, 2 weeks later on feb20,1788. Why does Coxe introduce 'militia' when Sam Adams had not mentioned militia? Because Coxe read Adams' reference to 'the people' as meaning 'the militia'.
Coxe, Feb20,1788, remarking on SAdams first draft of 2ndA,Feb6,1788: The powers of the sword are in the hands of the yeomanry of America from sixteen to sixty. The militia of these free commonwealths, entitled and accustomed to their arms, when compared with any possible army, must be tremendous and irresistible. Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress has no power to disarm the militia.