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gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
20. one is still greater than zero
Mon Jan 27, 2014, 10:08 PM
Jan 2014
A third of the guns in Australia were handed in to the government. Polls found that as much as 90 percent of the public approved of the stricter gun laws.
and the semi autos and pump actions have been replaced by bolt, lever actions, etc. Gun ownership has increased and the number of privately owned guns have increased since then. The polls were taken after a massive propaganda blitz by the Howard government and gun prohibition groups. I would also like to see the exact questions being asked.

There had been 11 gun massacres in the decade preceding 1996, but there have been no mass shootings since. This is a source of national pride, though statisticians still argue about what caused the change.
Not true. One of them were the combined casualties of biker gang battles. As you can tell from the link has been in fact one mass shooting since then. One is still greater than zero. There were three mass murder by arson since NFA. I don't know about you, being burned alive doesn't seem like a step up. New Zealand had the same phenomenon, passed no new gun laws and got the same result as Australia.

Philip Alpers, an adjunct associate professor at the Sydney School of Public Health and a specialist in firearm injury prevention, has documented that after the laws were changed, the risk of an Australian being killed by a gun fell by more than 50 percent. Australia’s gun homicide rate, 0.13 per 100,000 people, according to GunPolicy.org, is a tiny fraction of that of the United States (3.6 per 100,000 people). It should be noted that our gun homicide rates were already in decline, but the gun laws accelerated that slide.
Since the number of gun owners remained basically the same, and most states had pretty strict gun laws to begin with (Tasmania's laws were about as strict as IL), how did NFA did this? Since most Australian murders, then and now, are committed with knives, how significant was this? What difference does it make if you are shot or stabbed to death? Either way, the overall murder rate continued to decline at the same rate. It continues to drop even though private gun ownership has increased and there are more guns than before Port Author.

In a 2010 paper, economists Andrew Leigh and Christine Neill found that the law change had led to a 65 percent decline in the rate of firearm suicides. Firearm homicides fell by 59 percent.
Is this paper peer reviewed and has someone else replicated the study and got the same the same results? Notice what isn't said? It doesn't say the suicide rate fell by 65 percent, it says the gun suicide rate fell. In other words it really says (for the sake of simplicity) before NFA, 100 suicides were by firearm and 100 by other means. After NFA, 35 were by firearm and 165 by other means. I don't call that progress. If the overall suicide rate fell, I'm sure they would have mentioned it. As shown before, the homicide rate fell at the same rate as before. To quote the Australian Institute for Suicide Research and Prevention at Griffith University:
The implemented restrictions may not be responsible for the observed reductions in firearms suicide. Data suggest that a change in social and cultural attitudes could have contributed to the shift in method preference.
IOW, the suicide rate did not go down, just the use of guns.

This has what to do with the US? Our homicide rate is falling at almost the same rate (two point margin), without stricter laws. 61 percent of Australian murder victims are killed in their homes. How many are domestic violence vs home invasions gone bad, the Australian government doesn't mention. Most of ours is drug and gang related.

though statisticians still argue about what caused the change.
two words: copy cat.
Shooting massacres in Australia and other English-speaking countries often occurred close together in time. Forensic psychiatrists attribute this to copycat behaviour,[20[21] which is in many cases triggered by sensational media treatment.[22][23] Mass murderers study media reports and imitate the actions and equipment that are sensationalised in them.[24] The Monash shooting occurred at the height of publicity for the Beltway sniper attacks, which was extremely prominent from 3 October to the arrest of the perpetrators on 24 October 2002, three days after the Monash shootings. ]

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0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Even Australian gun laws would not have prevented it gejohnston Jan 2014 #1
When Australians gave back their guns SecularMotion Jan 2014 #2
they didn't give back anything gejohnston Jan 2014 #3
A third of the guns in Australia were handed in to the government. SecularMotion Jan 2014 #5
That's a lot of fine words. Why is it that the word "confiscated" was not used? friendly_iconoclast Jan 2014 #10
Because a buyback program is not confiscation? SecularMotion Jan 2014 #12
You elide the fact that the owners only "choice" was to be reimbursed or not. friendly_iconoclast Jan 2014 #13
I'm not entirely sure why you people are welcome around here. Oakenshield Mar 2014 #26
we don't alert gejohnston Mar 2014 #27
It was a success... Oakenshield Mar 2014 #29
not true gejohnston Mar 2014 #33
Drop the arson cases already. Oakenshield Mar 2014 #36
so it's about the guns, not the violence. gejohnston Apr 2014 #45
It's about GUN VIOLENCE. Oakenshield Apr 2014 #48
again, post hoc ergo propter hoc gejohnston Apr 2014 #52
Like hell it is. beevul Apr 2014 #63
And here we arrive at the conundrum. Oakenshield Apr 2014 #67
Be advised, this isn't my first rodeo. beevul Apr 2014 #70
Not sure if I should feel sympathetic or laugh. Oakenshield Apr 2014 #73
just to stick my nose in gejohnston Apr 2014 #77
I would recommend something else - quit while you're behind. beevul Apr 2014 #79
Alert? Nonsense, that post was brilliant! How to count the ways? friendly_iconoclast Mar 2014 #28
Ignorance of firearms technology? Oakenshield Mar 2014 #30
yes they were gejohnston Mar 2014 #31
Highly unlikely. Oakenshield Mar 2014 #32
no, the name was banned gejohnston Mar 2014 #34
Blatantly disengenuous. Oakenshield Mar 2014 #35
During the time frame of the "ban" I bought 3 stripped lowers. oneshooter Mar 2014 #37
If it was so ineffective, why did the NRA oppose it so furiously? Oakenshield Mar 2014 #38
Opposing ineffective, feel-good laws designed to appease the ignorant... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2014 #40
Good on them? Welcome to my ignore list. Oakenshield Mar 2014 #44
I'm fine with that. However, your posts are still gonna be thoroughly fisked... friendly_iconoclast Apr 2014 #51
seriously? gejohnston Mar 2014 #41
The size of the magazine DOES matter. Oakenshield Mar 2014 #42
she didn't read the report gejohnston Apr 2014 #46
Pay better attention. Oakenshield Apr 2014 #57
I don't know if that is actually true gejohnston Apr 2014 #59
So full of questions. Oakenshield Apr 2014 #62
I don't recall you ever being confirmed as Secretary of Needs friendly_iconoclast Apr 2014 #65
stupid argument gejohnston Apr 2014 #72
Oh, good. Oakenshield Apr 2014 #74
just not slang from gejohnston Apr 2014 #76
Another argument from authority, this time by proxy friendly_iconoclast Apr 2014 #50
*There's* the argument from authority you didn't use previously. You're getting better! friendly_iconoclast Mar 2014 #39
Post 31 utterly failed to contradict my point. Oakenshield Mar 2014 #43
Which were simply renamed and continued in production. And none were confiscated friendly_iconoclast Apr 2014 #47
actually, I did gejohnston Apr 2014 #49
Watch out, you'll be put on ignore and then we'll both be taking up... friendly_iconoclast Apr 2014 #53
Yes, the gun industry doesn't like to be regulated. Oakenshield Apr 2014 #54
Actually, it is among the most regulated industries gejohnston Apr 2014 #55
Not regulated anywhere near enough compared to Europe. Oakenshield Apr 2014 #56
actually, it is gejohnston Apr 2014 #58
I first heard of Yee in passing, and that was from a Tea-Party type overjoyed at the prospet.... Oakenshield Apr 2014 #61
He or she should be as outraged as I am gejohnston Apr 2014 #66
Actually, it isn't. Oakenshield Apr 2014 #64
there is more to it than than that gejohnston Apr 2014 #69
I'm sure there is. Oakenshield Apr 2014 #71
not really gejohnston Apr 2014 #75
I applaud the effort you've made to explain your alternative solution. Oakenshield Apr 2014 #78
I'm glad you're here. Bazinga Apr 2014 #80
It helps to exchange arguments. Oakenshield Apr 2014 #85
Can't, or won't, be allies? Bazinga Apr 2014 #87
the problem is, your more crude method won't change anything gejohnston Apr 2014 #82
And I VEHEMENTLY disagree. Oakenshield Apr 2014 #84
Actually, Australia's gun ownership rate stayed the same gejohnston Apr 2014 #86
European gun culture probably isn't what you think it is friendly_iconoclast Apr 2014 #68
You seem to have a rather casual attitude towards factual accuracy friendly_iconoclast Apr 2014 #60
Aha. So the gun control movement doesn't want a conversation after all... beevul Apr 2014 #81
Well said, but our latest seagull poster* has left the room friendly_iconoclast Apr 2014 #88
If it's not voluntary, it sure is. NT Adrahil Jan 2014 #23
one is still greater than zero gejohnston Jan 2014 #20
i'm in phoenix. a few nights ago DesertFlower Jan 2014 #4
That's not even an average weekend in Chicago DonP Jan 2014 #6
Well, I guess to solve it you should come and confiscate my guns. Common Sense Party Jan 2014 #7
How One Democracy Changed After Scrapping a Third of its Firearms SecularMotion Jan 2014 #8
So I only need to let you confiscate 1/3 of my guns? Common Sense Party Jan 2014 #9
The "gradual" gun prohibitionists think we don't notice what they're trying to do. friendly_iconoclast Jan 2014 #11
Why do you think we call them gun nuts? SecularMotion Jan 2014 #14
Because you're bigoted friendly_iconoclast Jan 2014 #17
Ah, yes. The School of Stigmata. Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #21
Because as friendly stated, you practice "respectable" bigotry. pablo_marmol Mar 2014 #24
Interesting... NYC_SKP Mar 2014 #25
Here you go: pablo_marmol Apr 2014 #89
The perception among many mokawanis Jan 2014 #15
What regulations would you propose? blueridge3210 Jan 2014 #16
The perception comes from#14 above.. Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #22
That perception is contrived and fostered with the intent of using it as a club... beevul Apr 2014 #83
And people want to take our ability to defend ourselves away... ileus Jan 2014 #18
Oh, you'll still be able to effectively defend yourself, if... friendly_iconoclast Jan 2014 #19
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