Gun Control & RKBA

Glenn Vardy

(483 posts)

64. Proven

Wed Feb 12, 2014, 10:53 PM

Feb 2014

You still haven't proven anything, or any valid point.

You said that the collective rights "theory" didn't start until the middle of the 20th century. I've proven you wrong with a 19th century court case which said that the State and U.S. Bill of Rights BOTH deal with the security of the State, but the STATE BoR "in addition" to State security secures a personal right to the citizen. In other words, the Second Amendment doesn't secure a personal right, that comes from the people of the State.

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Is the 2A absolute? [View all] hack89 Feb 2014 OP

there are no absolutes gejohnston Feb 2014 #1

Absolute? Like all of the BoR, no - regulation that touches on 2A is allowed petronius Feb 2014 #2

The only people that actually say that are the gun control "fans" and Ted Nugent DonP Feb 2014 #3

"teddy bear lie"? n/t Prophet 451 Feb 2014 #80

The claim that; "Teddy Bears are more regulated than firearms" DonP Feb 2014 #91

Ah, thankyou for the information n/t Prophet 451 Feb 2014 #92

You're welcome DonP Feb 2014 #94

None of the amendments are absolute. Just another distraction to try when your team is losing. NYC_SKP Feb 2014 #4

Great post Boom Sound 416 Feb 2014 #5

+1 SkatmanRoth Feb 2014 #7

They're NOT all individual. Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #10

you are correct about the 10th gejohnston Feb 2014 #11

Retaining rights as a collective body Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #12

True, the tenth amendment is a collective right, a states rights matter. NYC_SKP Feb 2014 #13

State security Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #14

THIS has to be the most entertaining answer to one's own question that could possibly be. NYC_SKP Feb 2014 #6

It should be...then neither side could scare up supporters. ileus Feb 2014 #8

That depends on what you mean by absolute... discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2014 #9

So you're conceding the point... jeepnstein Feb 2014 #15

Of course the 2A protects an individual right hack89 Feb 2014 #16

Opening NICS to individuals would be great. jeepnstein Feb 2014 #17

A Beretta M9 holds 15 rounds Prophet 451 Feb 2014 #81

A well regulated militia, not guns for everyone. Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #18

do you have a cite for that? gejohnston Feb 2014 #19

Thomas Jefferson Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #21

More Jefferson Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #22

But in his drafts for the Virginia constitution, he said petronius Feb 2014 #23

Own lands? Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #25

The point is that if Jefferson believed individuals had the right to use (i.e. own, petronius Feb 2014 #26

Most reasonable Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #31

His comments and letters about standing armies shed no light on his petronius Feb 2014 #32

It does shed light on the purpose of the 2nd Amendment Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #35

The question is *how* 2A protects what it was intended to protect petronius Feb 2014 #36

Reason for and purpose of Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #39

Joseph Story identifies the reason for and purpose of the Second Amendment Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #40

Are we abandoning Jefferson, then? You brought him in, remember, petronius Feb 2014 #41

The military context Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #42

straw man gejohnston Feb 2014 #43

Hold your horses... Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #44

he wasn't there remember? gejohnston Feb 2014 #45

The onus is on you Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #46

actually you do gejohnston Feb 2014 #48

The onus IS on you. Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #70

actually I did gejohnston Feb 2014 #71

You proved WHAT?????? Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #78

because it was was an argument gejohnston Feb 2014 #85

Who are the militia? discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2014 #89

Able bodied males of a specified age Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #97

Thanks for your reply discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2014 #101

Thanks back Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #106

~~~ discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2014 #115

Collective capacity Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #116

re: "If you don't belong to the collective body of "the people"..." discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2014 #122

Yes, the people consists of persons Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #124

So which persons are not people discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2014 #125

The People Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #126

A suggestion discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2014 #127

State security Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #47

no gejohnston Feb 2014 #49

"the people" = individuals? Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #54

you made an incoherent reference gejohnston Feb 2014 #55

Just click on 'reply'. Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #59

no gejohnston Feb 2014 #60

Reposted stuff for gejohnston Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #66

which has what to do with the gejohnston Feb 2014 #67

Address this Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #68

The Texas constitution has gejohnston Feb 2014 #72

"Sole" and "exclusive". Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #69

and? gejohnston Feb 2014 #73

"People" is not being used in the plural. Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #74

the people are made up of individuals gejohnston Feb 2014 #82

"Theory"? Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #50

I don't think you have the context right gejohnston Feb 2014 #53

In addition thereto... Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #57

and? gejohnston Feb 2014 #58

Proven Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #64

no you didn't gejohnston Feb 2014 #65

My collective "theory". Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #76

no gejohnston Feb 2014 #77

The gun-industry's so-called "standard model". Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #83

no it wasn't gejohnston Feb 2014 #87

Read this "very selected part" of history. Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #86

They are discussing militia vs standing army gejohnston Feb 2014 #88

That's the point. Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #95

that said, I seriously doubt that is the complete transcript gejohnston Feb 2014 #96

Is intended to secure.... Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #98

he didn't say it didn't either gejohnston Feb 2014 #99

Your logic Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #100

it isn't the complete transcript gejohnston Feb 2014 #103

The Framers said.... Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #109

we did gejohnston Feb 2014 #110

Jefferson was opposed to a standing army gejohnston Feb 2014 #24

"...nothing to do with individual gun ownership..." Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #27

his comments were about gejohnston Feb 2014 #28

His comments weren't about guns Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #29

where is the citation? gejohnston Feb 2014 #30

What compromise? Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #33

you didn't read closely gejohnston Feb 2014 #34

This doesn't help you. Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #37

the rest of the BoR, the "people" refers to individual gejohnston Feb 2014 #38

The original draft Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #75

the people still refer to individuals gejohnston Feb 2014 #79

Unanswered questions Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #104

ask them, I wasn't there gejohnston Feb 2014 #105

We weren't there? Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #108

actually it doesn't gejohnston Feb 2014 #112

Round and round we go Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #113

so? gejohnston Feb 2014 #114

That is simple to explain. ManiacJoe Feb 2014 #117

I back up my assertions with examples Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #118

If you don't like my suggested answer to your question, ManiacJoe Feb 2014 #119

Joe, my own answer Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #120

Unfortunately for you, your belief has been shown to be wrong many times... ManiacJoe Feb 2014 #121

Knowledgeable folks????? Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #123

"I believe that the Constitution confers an individual right to bear arms." Barack Obama hack89 Feb 2014 #20

Based on what? Adrahil Feb 2014 #90

THE reason Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #102

I don't agree. But there's the crux of the problem, yes? Adrahil Feb 2014 #107

Uniformity Glenn Vardy Feb 2014 #111

It's irrelevant unless we are taking about state security. Deep13 Feb 2014 #51

I suggest you check the Democratic Party platform first hack89 Feb 2014 #52

Yes, many folks miss the 18th c., but it is good for good. nt Deep13 Feb 2014 #61

I am very happy with the 21st c hack89 Feb 2014 #63

Engblom v Carey 1982 sarisataka Feb 2014 #56

The takings or the due processes clauses might be applicable too. Deep13 Feb 2014 #62

Whether or not a LEO can be considered a soldier sarisataka Feb 2014 #84

Henderson, NV. sked14 Feb 2014 #93