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Gun Control & RKBA
In reply to the discussion: This message was self-deleted by its author [View all]sarisataka
(18,621 posts)149. Why do you keep changing your point?
you have already answered your own question
The debate is about who can serve in the militia.
-it was understood ownership was a right of the people- as individuals (keep)
-it was understood carrying was a right of the people- as individuals (and bear)
-it was known some individuals had religious beliefs that would prevent them from being effective militia members- as individuals (a well regulated militia)
-it was feared a future government would try to use the religious exemption clause to decide who is "religiously scrupulous" therefore deny their right to bear arms or serve in the militia (shall not be abridged)
The Amendment is protecting a right of the States, or collective right if you wish, to have a trained, effective militia-
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state
It protects that State right but enumerating the individual right-
the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed
Removed was the provision that could become a loophole to abridge the State and individual rights by the Federal government declaring who is religiously unqualified to bear arms. If you read carefully, their concern was atheism. The writers knew atheism was growing and at some point could actually become a majority. If a fundamentalist Government declared atheists to be religiously scrupulous of bearing arms, it would allow the Federal government to destroy the State militias; thus giving the Federal government all military power.
but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms shall be compelled to render military service in person
I have little doubt Madison and Jefferson would find our current military system an abomination and likely weep at how much power the Federal government has over the States.
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The cumulative count will always increase unless people start rising from the dead.
hack89
Aug 2014
#6
An unsupported claim *and* a strawman in just one sentence. Well done!
friendly_iconoclast
Aug 2014
#24
Let me know when it drops below the rate of death from e-bola in the US.
notrightatall
Oct 2014
#202
And this is why I feel good about resisting the people that want me to ban you, SM
krispos42
Aug 2014
#8
You're "helping the cause" in the same way Ian Paisley used to "help" Unionism...
friendly_iconoclast
Aug 2014
#17
So you think I'm being harassed for being the host of a group that bans gun nuts?
SecularMotion
Aug 2014
#26
Well the only place where opposing views to the ones presented in your echo chamber
shedevil69taz
Aug 2014
#31
A flat declaration of fact is now an "opinion", and a strawman is repeated
friendly_iconoclast
Aug 2014
#39
Rates declining is not the same as the proportion of guns used to commit homicide.
acalix
Aug 2014
#50
Great Post! The 2a is racist, unnecessary, and evil. It should be repealed.
ncjustice80
Sep 2014
#58
Bogus! That mofo just keeps popping up. Such clearly debunked bullshit, and it still comes up.
NYC_SKP
Oct 2014
#81
The Dred Scott decision was passed, in part, to prevent slaves from owning guns.
Nuclear Unicorn
Sep 2014
#67
Hit and run cowards with hands on their keyboards are giving aid and comfort to the GOP. NT
pablo_marmol
Sep 2014
#70
I think you're right but I wouldn't blame movies and books and TV shows on the NRA.
NYC_SKP
Sep 2014
#72
Even if we accept your erroneous interpretation that would still make the 2A addressed to the people
Nuclear Unicorn
Oct 2014
#124
It's kind looking, from the passge you have cited, that individual liberty is the issue at hand.
Nuclear Unicorn
Oct 2014
#129
The passage -- which was selected by you and is not the totality of the debate -- deals with
Nuclear Unicorn
Oct 2014
#140
Your entire line of argument is moot, thanks to the unorganized militia...
friendly_iconoclast
Oct 2014
#191
The ageist and sexist language wouldn't stand up to legal challenge
friendly_iconoclast
Oct 2014
#208
Your claim conflicts directly with the wording of the Second Amendment itself
friendly_iconoclast
Oct 2014
#216
The 'collective' reading of the Second Amendment is what's moot...
friendly_iconoclast
Oct 2014
#238