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beevul

(12,194 posts)
299. Yes, you muddying the water.
Mon Nov 3, 2014, 11:01 AM
Nov 2014
" I'm presenting EVIDENCE to back up what I say. You've ignored that evidence to muddy the water with this side-step. "


No, you're presenting evidence you believe backs up what you say. Theres a difference.

"If "the people" in the Fourth Amendment means "people," as in, inviting some "people" round for a party, why didn't Verdugo-Urquidez have Fourth Amendment protection? He could be one of the "people" at a party, couldn't he?"



Your answer to the 4th amendment issue is to cite Verdugo-Urquidez...well...color me underwhelmed:


United States v. Verdugo-Urquidez, 494 U.S. 259 (1990),[1] was a United States Supreme Court decision that determined that Fourth Amendment protections do not apply to searches and seizures by United States agents of property owned by a nonresident alien in a foreign country.

The Skanner. Sounds like a B-sci-fi movie. nt Eleanors38 Aug 2014 #1
The people with blood on their hands Lurks Often Aug 2014 #2
"The body count continues to rise" ...except it doesn't, it continues to fall DonP Aug 2014 #3
It hasn't gone down russ1943 Aug 2014 #5
The cumulative count will always increase unless people start rising from the dead. hack89 Aug 2014 #6
So you have a link to prove that it's going up? IronGate Aug 2014 #7
You are funny, wrong, but really funny, not to mention desperate DonP Aug 2014 #9
I’m neither wrong nor funny. russ1943 Aug 2014 #13
Oh yeah, we’re supposed to know what you mean, not what you wrote. russ1943 Aug 2014 #14
You said the body count continues to rise, IronGate Aug 2014 #15
a steaming pile jimmy the one Aug 2014 #22
An unsupported claim *and* a strawman in just one sentence. Well done! friendly_iconoclast Aug 2014 #24
ex recto ergo unfriendly icon jimmy the one Aug 2014 #32
You've offered up at least two logical fallacies, not evidence friendly_iconoclast Aug 2014 #34
You're looking at the wrong statistic. acalix Aug 2014 #35
you're talking about rate of increase - the body count is rising samsingh Oct 2014 #76
11,453 gun murders in 1996; 9528 in 2008; 8855 in 2012 hack89 Oct 2014 #80
add the numbers up - those are all guns deaths samsingh Oct 2014 #102
But they are steadily decreasing hack89 Oct 2014 #103
People are being revived by gunnery? notrightatall Oct 2014 #176
The annual body count is falling hack89 Oct 2014 #197
Let me know when it drops below the rate of death from e-bola in the US. notrightatall Oct 2014 #202
Not a problem nt hack89 Oct 2014 #203
Another fact-less, emotional rant from the radical gun control fringe hack89 Aug 2014 #4
Also known as the coalition of the sane. notrightatall Oct 2014 #204
Right. Nt hack89 Oct 2014 #205
I got your "coalition of the sane" right here pal... beevul Oct 2014 #212
Sorry , Mr. Gun Man... notrightatall Oct 2014 #215
"That was nothing more than lousy cops doing a lousy job." friendly_iconoclast Oct 2014 #237
That is the most idiotic post I have read in weeks. notrightatall Oct 2014 #242
Looks like you need to get out more... friendly_iconoclast Oct 2014 #243
No need to be contrite. notrightatall Oct 2014 #248
The gibes of the politically ineffectual carry no sting friendly_iconoclast Oct 2014 #253
And this is why I feel good about resisting the people that want me to ban you, SM krispos42 Aug 2014 #8
The fact that gunners want you ban to me SecularMotion Aug 2014 #10
Funny thing, IronGate Aug 2014 #11
I am so glad this group allows you to post your funnies Duckhunter935 Aug 2014 #16
You're "helping the cause" in the same way Ian Paisley used to "help" Unionism... friendly_iconoclast Aug 2014 #17
No, it just shows they don't like people that don't discuss what they post. krispos42 Aug 2014 #19
Bullshit! SecularMotion Aug 2014 #20
You have a point krispos42 Aug 2014 #21
And here's your award, a "Narcissist of the Week" T-shirt DonP Aug 2014 #23
performing the ostrich trick jimmy the one Aug 2014 #33
Maybe we would respect you if you you didn't maintain a echo chamber shedevil69taz Aug 2014 #25
So you think I'm being harassed for being the host of a group that bans gun nuts? SecularMotion Aug 2014 #26
I think your behavior is that of a child... shedevil69taz Aug 2014 #27
Do you feel that way about all safe havens on DU? SecularMotion Aug 2014 #28
I dunno... shedevil69taz Aug 2014 #29
That's where you're mistaken SecularMotion Aug 2014 #30
Well the only place where opposing views to the ones presented in your echo chamber shedevil69taz Aug 2014 #31
Nah, I don't think we would. n/t HALO141 Nov 2014 #324
this is not all over DU Duckhunter935 Aug 2014 #36
You know Duckhunter935 Aug 2014 #43
Wrong. ... spin Oct 2014 #88
Gun Control In UK Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #96
Utter lies. acalix Oct 2014 #97
Below 0% owned guns before ban. Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #106
math lesson gejohnston Oct 2014 #107
Reading lesson. Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #109
yes, he and the BBC said it rose gejohnston Oct 2014 #111
Below 0%? Try 6% of households. acalix Nov 2014 #302
since only licensed gun owners turned in their guns gejohnston Oct 2014 #99
Obviously, the BBC are just NRA shills DonP Oct 2014 #101
My point was that some gun control advocates would like to impose laws ... spin Oct 2014 #118
NRA has unwarranted power Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #121
except they don't gejohnston Oct 2014 #127
Unregistered private sales Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #131
if legislation prevented it gejohnston Oct 2014 #132
I realize that gun control advocates love to call the NRA the Big Bully ... spin Oct 2014 #133
Speaking of "blood on hands," dove season opens in Texas Labor Day. Eleanors38 Aug 2014 #12
Thanks, but I'll keep my rights. ileus Aug 2014 #18
by your own reasoning you lose jimmy the one Aug 2014 #37
A flat declaration of fact is now an "opinion", and a strawman is repeated friendly_iconoclast Aug 2014 #39
This message was self-deleted by its author friendly_iconoclast Aug 2014 #40
evidence dates back centuries jimmy the one Aug 2014 #38
A quote from an ancient poem that features divine intervention... friendly_iconoclast Aug 2014 #41
Rates declining is not the same as percentage of guns used to commit murder. acalix Aug 2014 #42
harping on a quibble jimmy the one Aug 2014 #44
You've been done a disservice, jimmy friendly_iconoclast Aug 2014 #46
Rates declining is not the same as the proportion of guns used to commit homicide. acalix Aug 2014 #50
win battle lose war jimmy the one Aug 2014 #45
really neat picture graphic jimmy the one Aug 2014 #47
More neat graphics that "prove" correlation = causation: friendly_iconoclast Aug 2014 #48
you provide excellent examples jimmy the one Aug 2014 #49
Firearms are used in 67% of all murders. This has remained the same since 1992. acalix Aug 2014 #51
cherry pickium errorium jimmy the one Aug 2014 #52
Repeated ad infintum acalix Aug 2014 #53
more data jimmy the one Sep 2014 #54
And it rose again acalix Sep 2014 #55
both rose again jimmy the one Sep 2014 #56
Either gun ownership rose or it didn't acalix Sep 2014 #57
Great Post! The 2a is racist, unnecessary, and evil. It should be repealed. ncjustice80 Sep 2014 #58
In what way is it racist? oneshooter Sep 2014 #59
Loooonnnnggg history behind that. ncjustice80 Sep 2014 #60
So the civil made the 2nd obsolete? DonP Sep 2014 #62
Loudly? So soon. n/t oneshooter Sep 2014 #63
Sounds familiar? IronGate Sep 2014 #64
You read that on Truth-out by gejohnston Sep 2014 #65
Nunn? Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #73
no there isn't. gejohnston Oct 2014 #82
Bogus! That mofo just keeps popping up. Such clearly debunked bullshit, and it still comes up. NYC_SKP Oct 2014 #81
Welcome back!!!!! sarisataka Sep 2014 #66
It isn't. blueridge3210 Sep 2014 #61
The Dred Scott decision was passed, in part, to prevent slaves from owning guns. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2014 #67
Thank you! nt ncjustice80 Sep 2014 #68
Meet civil rights hero, Otis McDonald -- Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2014 #69
Bogus rebutted gejohnston Oct 2014 #241
Hit and run cowards with hands on their keyboards are giving aid and comfort to the GOP. NT pablo_marmol Sep 2014 #70
At the heart of it is the NRA-fueled paranoia. chrisa Sep 2014 #71
I think you're right but I wouldn't blame movies and books and TV shows on the NRA. NYC_SKP Sep 2014 #72
The Militia Amendment. Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #74
"He" who? Madison? Jefferson? NYC_SKP Oct 2014 #75
"He" who wrote the proposed amendments. Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #78
I acknowledge that the collective right depends upon individual rights. NYC_SKP Oct 2014 #79
Why does it? Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #83
The state can't "grant" rights that are natural rights. NYC_SKP Oct 2014 #84
That doesn't answer my question. Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #85
Fundamental error. Straw Man Oct 2014 #86
Answer this question Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #87
It sounds as if you think the constitution is there to serve the government. NYC_SKP Oct 2014 #89
I haven't said that. Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #95
Please give your definition of the term "right" discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2014 #90
Please stop side-stepping the points made in #74 Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #94
you realize you picked the one of the worst SCOTUS decision ever gejohnston Oct 2014 #98
Doesn't say what it says????? Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #108
the decision has been over turned gejohnston Oct 2014 #110
Including the existence of "collective rights?" Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #117
because gejohnston Oct 2014 #119
Do collective rights exist? Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #125
cherry pick much? gejohnston Oct 2014 #126
That depends Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #134
false reading gejohnston Oct 2014 #135
Ease up on the constant strawmen Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #138
are for real? gejohnston Oct 2014 #141
Cherry-picked? Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #144
So? gejohnston Oct 2014 #162
STILL no straight answers Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #164
that is a straight answer gejohnston Oct 2014 #167
From 2A to 9A Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #169
my question remains gejohnston Oct 2014 #170
Continuous side-stepping Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #173
not even close gejohnston Oct 2014 #174
MORE side-stepping. Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #178
you addressed nothing gejohnston Oct 2014 #179
Please answer the question discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2014 #100
The question is irrelevant. Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #112
Without the definition of "right"... discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2014 #175
It's simple. Straw Man Oct 2014 #92
Simple, but wrong. Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #93
Fish aren't aware of the water they swim in. Straw Man Oct 2014 #105
"Enlightened political theory" Lol Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #113
Not "enlightened" -- "Englightenment" Straw Man Oct 2014 #115
Relevance Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #120
You're missing the point by miles. Straw Man Oct 2014 #142
"Of course not" = No. Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #143
You seem to be very confused ... Straw Man Oct 2014 #155
Misdirection, smoke and mirrors Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #163
I've been very clear. Straw Man Oct 2014 #165
The deceiver. Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #168
What kind of game are you playing? Straw Man Oct 2014 #171
Yet MORE misdirection from Straw Man Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #172
Smoke and mirrors. Straw Man Oct 2014 #180
The unanswered question Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #190
Oh, so you want to play guessing games ... Straw Man Oct 2014 #193
Your answer. What now? Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #196
So let me get this straight. Straw Man Oct 2014 #209
I've been clear Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #213
No, you haven't. Straw Man Oct 2014 #217
"They?" Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #220
Yes, "they." Straw Man Oct 2014 #222
Let's play word games. Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #226
No, let's be clear. Straw Man Oct 2014 #230
Individual right to a well regulated militia? Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #235
Nope. Straw Man Oct 2014 #244
Bobbing and weaving Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #246
Oh, come on. Straw Man Oct 2014 #250
Thomas Jefferson- sarisataka Oct 2014 #114
No bearing on purpose of Second Amendment Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #122
As a militia amendent sarisataka Oct 2014 #123
Squeezing out of the text Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #166
The slightest hint? Straw Man Oct 2014 #194
Even if we accept your erroneous interpretation that would still make the 2A addressed to the people Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2014 #124
Proposal reaches the Congress. Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #128
It's kind looking, from the passge you have cited, that individual liberty is the issue at hand. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2014 #129
But not the "liberty" to own a gun? Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #136
The passage -- which was selected by you and is not the totality of the debate -- deals with Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2014 #140
Selected passage? Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #145
Mason quote in context Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #160
At all times armed Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #161
Seems a debate about how individual rights sarisataka Oct 2014 #130
It just isn't there. Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #137
At the basis of a Liberal Democracy: sarisataka Oct 2014 #139
Assumption Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #146
Yes sarisataka Oct 2014 #147
C-A-R-R-Y-I-N-G Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #148
Why do you keep changing your point? sarisataka Oct 2014 #149
jefferson was not advising a gun for protection jimmy the one Oct 2014 #150
Don't see where I made any claim sarisataka Oct 2014 #151
quotes prove little jimmy the one Oct 2014 #152
bogus quote alert, bogus quote alert jimmy the one Oct 2014 #153
I do not have time sarisataka Oct 2014 #154
Phrase isn't his Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #156
You are correct sarisataka Oct 2014 #181
A well regulated militia, not unorganized gun owners. Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #185
Colonial militias did indeed elect their own officers back then friendly_iconoclast Oct 2014 #186
Art 1, Sec 8. Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #188
Your entire line of argument is moot, thanks to the unorganized militia... friendly_iconoclast Oct 2014 #191
Doesn't consist of everyone Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #206
The ageist and sexist language wouldn't stand up to legal challenge friendly_iconoclast Oct 2014 #208
65 year olds? Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #214
Your claim conflicts directly with the wording of the Second Amendment itself friendly_iconoclast Oct 2014 #216
Side-stepping in circles Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #224
knife sharpener needed jimmy the one Oct 2014 #232
The 'collective' reading of the Second Amendment is what's moot... friendly_iconoclast Oct 2014 #238
having the power and doing it gejohnston Oct 2014 #192
Required Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #198
the required those eligible gejohnston Oct 2014 #200
None of my business but... discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2014 #199
sometimes I think I can gejohnston Oct 2014 #201
yeah discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2014 #207
Collective rights Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #236
With all due respect... discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2014 #240
Rights discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2014 #258
The thrust Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #187
Nice sarisataka Oct 2014 #189
I showed the wider quote Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #195
Brainwashed? Straw Man Oct 2014 #210
"supports the individual-right interpretation?" Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #218
Now you're making me laugh. Straw Man Oct 2014 #223
Drawing false conclusions Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #228
Wrong again. Straw Man Oct 2014 #229
Propagandist accusing others of bad faith. Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #233
I'm a propagandist? Straw Man Oct 2014 #245
Not answering isn't ignoring? Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #247
You're asking me why Adams did or didn't say something? Straw Man Oct 2014 #249
Your OWN assertion Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #157
Bearing arms IS military service Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #158
The military expression and phrase Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #159
Final answer sarisataka Oct 2014 #177
Bearing arms IS military service Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #182
The other state provisions Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #183
vintage 2ndA mythology jimmy the one Oct 2014 #227
The state proposals Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #184
1776/77 arms provisions jimmy the one Oct 2014 #221
exercise with your 7 lb gun jimmy the one Oct 2014 #225
Posting with a 1/2 oz. quill pen? friendly_iconoclast Oct 2014 #239
new constitution every 19 yrs, jefferson jimmy the one Oct 2014 #231
So typical. Get everyone asking the wrong question, and of course... beevul Oct 2014 #211
Your answer? Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #219
My assertion is empirical fact. beevul Oct 2014 #251
The purpose Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #254
Youy're playing the "distinction without a difference" game. beevul Oct 2014 #256
Voting and abortion? Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #259
Sorry, but no. beevul Oct 2014 #261
No and yes? Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #263
Can't you read? beevul Oct 2014 #265
Can't you give straight answers? Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #266
Every answer I've given you has been a strait answer... beevul Oct 2014 #267
Fluke true comment? Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #276
Where? beevul Nov 2014 #278
Straw and red-herrings answer Glenn Vardy Nov 2014 #281
Sorry bud, but you're wrong again. beevul Nov 2014 #283
Torpedo? Glenn Vardy Nov 2014 #286
Yeah, torpedo. beevul Nov 2014 #292
More ignorance from beevul Glenn Vardy Nov 2014 #298
Like the Bismarck. Straw Man Nov 2014 #295
More untrue factoids from Strawman Glenn Vardy Nov 2014 #296
Wrong again. Straw Man Nov 2014 #300
Ask about the Ninth Amendment sarisataka Nov 2014 #303
YOU ask. Glenn Vardy Nov 2014 #306
Very well, Two questions sarisataka Nov 2014 #321
Strawman playing ignorant Glenn Vardy Nov 2014 #307
This message was self-deleted by its author Straw Man Nov 2014 #308
Around and around and around we go. Straw Man Nov 2014 #309
Oh, that's different Glenn Vardy Nov 2014 #310
More question dodging from Strawman Glenn Vardy Nov 2014 #311
The essence of your error Straw Man Nov 2014 #314
Collective and individual right comparison. Glenn Vardy Nov 2014 #312
You're funny. Straw Man Nov 2014 #315
He confuses collective protection of a right... beevul Nov 2014 #316
I found it interesting blueridge3210 Nov 2014 #318
I am quite sure... discntnt_irny_srcsm Nov 2014 #317
Like miss-thrown Frisbees: 1 is no problem; a thousand, yuck. nt Eleanors38 Nov 2014 #322
"Contend" Glenn Vardy Nov 2014 #319
It would seem that ... Straw Man Nov 2014 #320
Messing with the text Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #234
Your implication is that it matters. It does not. beevul Oct 2014 #252
THE purpose Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #255
Nope. beevul Oct 2014 #257
"Abuse of it's powers" Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #260
Since you want to play the "quote a justice" game... beevul Oct 2014 #262
Joseph Story quote in context Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #264
You're so cute when you equivocate. beevul Oct 2014 #268
He's not answering me either discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2014 #269
GN's distorting justice story jimmy the one Oct 2014 #270
Poor poor Jimmy... beevul Oct 2014 #271
the truth so clear jimmy the one Oct 2014 #272
And wholly irrelevant to the matter at hand. beevul Oct 2014 #273
more guns, more lies jimmy the one Oct 2014 #274
You really need an authority to answer that for you? beevul Nov 2014 #279
One man militias? Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #277
I'm sorry, you clearly don't understand any of this. beevul Nov 2014 #280
"The People" is NOT "people." Glenn Vardy Nov 2014 #282
"You're SO wrong." Meet amendment 4. beevul Nov 2014 #284
Just curious: blueridge3210 Nov 2014 #285
Free government Glenn Vardy Nov 2014 #287
So, in your interpretation, blueridge3210 Nov 2014 #288
Right to "assemble" Glenn Vardy Nov 2014 #290
Perfect example of how you play fast and loose with the facts. beevul Nov 2014 #294
Dismissing/ignoring points made. Glenn Vardy Nov 2014 #297
Now you're just being silly. Straw Man Nov 2014 #301
Party guest. Glenn Vardy Nov 2014 #289
Yes, you muddying the water. beevul Nov 2014 #299
Didn't belong to that body. Glenn Vardy Nov 2014 #305
Other individuals did though. beevul Nov 2014 #313
Right there: "...describing the person..." Eleanors38 Nov 2014 #323
More muddy water from beevul Glenn Vardy Nov 2014 #291
There is no amendment dealing with state security glenn. beevul Nov 2014 #293
"Qualifiers qualifiers qualifiers qualifiers" Glenn Vardy Nov 2014 #304
Citizen soldiers Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #275
you are absolutely right samsingh Oct 2014 #77
Not even HALO141 Oct 2014 #91
agreed samsingh Oct 2014 #104
absolutely incorrect ileus Oct 2014 #116
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