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Gun Control & RKBA

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benEzra

(12,148 posts)
Thu Feb 19, 2015, 12:31 AM Feb 2015

A discussion of rifle ammunition bans and .223/M855 murders, by the numbers. [View all]

A poster in one of the M855-ban threads made the following comment, and I think it is worth discussing at length.

" i would like to have a discussion that looks at pros and cons in these situations.
banning rifle ammunition is not at the top of my list for sure. I never actually thought about it until this thread.
But there is no discussion around what lives could be saved or not saved."


We can approach this topic from the perspective of police officer murders (the BATFE's stated rationale for the proposed ban on some popular .223 ammunition), or from the perspective of rifle murders in general.

Police officer murders. One way to approach this question is to look at the police officer murders, and the ability of pretty much any centerfire rifle to shoot through soft body armor like Saran Wrap.

The best resource for understanding the threat to police officers is the annual FBI report on Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted. From this report, we see that in 2013, 27 police officers were murdered in the United States. Of those, the table of types of weapon used shows that all rifles combined accounted for 5 murders. Eighteen officers were murdered with handguns, and three with shotguns.

Of those five officers murdered with rifles, two were murdered with .223 rifles of any type.

Table 41 reveals exactly zero deaths occurred in 2013 because the victim's body armor was penetrated. To reiterate, not one single officer died in 2013 from having her/his vest penetrated by *any* caliber firearm.

In fact, the same table shows that only 3 officers have been killed since 2004 by any .223 or 5.56x45mm round penetrating any type of vest. One death occurred in 2004, one in 2008, and one in 2011, and there is no indication that any of those involved M855 or rifle-resistant armor. During the same time period, 7 officers were murdered through their vests using deer hunting calibers (.30-30 Winchester, 7mm, .308, or .30-06), 5 were murdered through their vests using 7.62x39mm, and 385 were murdered with ordinary pistols and revolvers (almost all of which involved hits to unprotected areas).

Finally, to understand this discussion, it helps to understand body armor ratings. The current National Institutes of Justice armor ratings are as follows, increasing in both protection and discomfort/bulk as you go higher:

Ballistic Resistance of Body Armor - NIJ Standard-0101.06

NIJ Level IIA (soft armor) - rated to stop slow 9mm, .40 Smith & Wesson (handgun rounds)
NIJ Level II (soft armor) - rated to stop fast 9mm, slow .357 (handgun rounds)
NIJ Level IIIA (soft armor) - rated to stop .357 Sig, .44 mag (handgun rounds)
NIJ Level III (usually hard armor) - rated to stop steel jacketed 147gr 7.62x51mm at 2780 ft/sec (substantial rifle round)
NIJ Level IV (hard armor) - rated to stop full power rifle shooting armor piercing ammunition (166gr .30-06/7.62x63mm tungsten-core AP at 2880 ft/sec)

For context, M855 is a 62-grain, copper jacketed, steel-capped lead core .22-caliber bullet at about 2980 ft/sec out of a typical civilian-length barrel.

Note that any armor rated IIIA or below is not rated to stop any rifle. Most police officers wear Level IIIA, which is rated to stop the threat they are likely to face (concealable handguns in pistol/revolver calibers). Some officers add Level III hard inserts in the armor that protect the chest from torso hits with lower powered rifles like .223 and 7.62x39mm (as well as .308), but these plates are heavy and hot. SWAT officers typically wear Level III hard armor (external) or Level IV, which will stop full-on military armor piercing rounds from a .30-06, but they don't have to patrol all day wearing it.

Looking at the above figures, it is obvious that the number of annual police officer deaths that would be averted by banning M855 is zero. .223 is rarely used to murder police officers, and in the rare event it is, it rarely involves vest penetration. If vest is involved, NIJ Level IIIA or below won't stop *any* .223 (or pretty much any other rifle round), and NIJ Level III or IV hard body armor will stop M855 just like it stops 7.62x51mm steel jacketed FMJ. True armor piercing .223/5.56mm rounds (tungsten core M995) would probably penetrate Level III hard armor, but has long been banned, is not affected by this proposal, and has probably never been used to murder a single police officer in the United States.

Murder in general. The other way to address this question is to look at murder in general. The best source for this information is the FBI Uniform Crime Reports, particularly Table 20, Murder by State and Type of Weapon.

According to the UCR, there were 12,253 murders reported to the FBI in 2013 in the United States. According to Table 20, all rifles combined accounted for 285 of them. Back in the late 1980s, I recall the BATF Youth Crime Gun Interdiction Survey might have broken things down more by caliber, but those numbers are now dated and don't shed much light on the current discussion. I have them archived in my journal from the old DU and can dig them up if anybody wants them.

Still, we can certainly narrow it down based on what we know of U.S. rifle ownership. Of that 285, some large portion is committed with .22 rimfires due to their ubiquity, low noise signature, handiness/concealability, or whatever. The remainder are committed with centerfires, which are more powerful than rimfires but also heavier, louder, bulkier, and more costly. By far the most popular centerfire rifle caliber in the United States is .223 Remington, the caliber under discussion here. As I recall, the next most popular centerfire caliber in terms of annual rounds fired are 7.62x39mm, .308 Winchester, .30-06, and .30-30, followed by a bevy of more narrowly focused hunting calibers like .243, .270, the 7mm's, and so on, but no one disputes that .223 is by far the most popular centerfire rifle caliber in U.S. homes. For the sake of argument, let's say 100 murders/yr are committed with .223, 100 with 7.62x39mm, and 85 with everything else; this undoubtedly overestimates both .223 and 7.62x39mm (the old YCGIS data put rimfires at almost half of rifle homicides, I think), but it's probably within a factor of two or so of the true number, and overestimation presents the strongest possible case for the gun-control side, so let's run with that figure for now and see where it goes.

.223 Remington ammunition (aka 5.56x45mm) is a .22 centerfire that shoots small bullets weighing between 40 to 77 grains (2.6 to 5.0 grams) at deer-rifle velocities. By far the most common in general use is 55 grain (3.6 grams), which splits the difference between the light 40-grain small game rounds and the heavier 77-grain long range rounds, and is mostly what you'll find at Walmart or sold as inexpensive target/practice ammo. Based on its overwhelming prevalence, it's reasonable to expect that 80%-90% of murders using .223 are with 55-grain FMJ/JHP/SP. Let's say 80%; that leaves 20 murders with all other weights of .223 rounds.

M855 is a 62-grain load, the extra mass over 55-grain helping it retain velocity better at range (which is why it out-penetrates 55-grain at 600 meters; it is more streamlined and has higher sectional density, so it doesn't slow down as quickly from air resistance). It's by far the most popular of the longer range .223 rounds, so let's assume that 75% of non-55gr murders are with M855. That's 15 murders, out of 12,253 murders annually (and remember, we are overestimating the case here).

Of that 15, how many would have survived if they had been shot with a 55 to 77 grain .223 that wasn't M855? Ironically, although all rifle rounds are quite lethal, M855 has been the subject of harsh criticism (also here) over its perceived lack of lethality in combat, which is why it's popular as a civilian target and practice round but much less so as a defensive or law enforcement round. In short, even if a ban on M855 magically made it vanish completely, to be replaced by ordinary $5/box 55-grain lead core FMJ, it would make no difference whatsoever. M855 is no more lethal than any other .22 centerfire rifle round, and (as discussed above) is stopped by the same body armor that stops other .223.

Addendum: For those who don't have firsthand experience with .223, here's a comparison that may help put this discussion in perspective:



The cartridge on the left is .308 Winchester (7.62mm), a popular hunting and target shooting round that was originally developed for the U.S. military; NIJ Level III body armor is rated to stop a steel jacketed bullet from this cartridge. In the center is a .223 Remington (5.56mm), the most popular civilian centerfire rifle cartridge in the United States; M855 is one particular flavor of this cartridge. On the right is an AA battery to show scale.

Disclaimer: I am a casual-competitive shooter who enjoys shooting a .223 rifle and keeps one at home in lieu of the traditional 12-gauge, so that's my angle.
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Thanks for the facts. braddy Feb 2015 #1
Banning M855 is kind of silly, but.... Adrahil Feb 2015 #2
A lot of people who shoot M855 benEzra Feb 2015 #4
I dunno.... Adrahil Feb 2015 #5
Thanks for the post, interesting Duckhunter935 Feb 2015 #3
The Fraternal Order of Police has chimed in. benEzra Mar 2015 #6
Great Post Ben.. virginia mountainman Mar 2015 #7
rock paper scissors jimmy the one Mar 2015 #8
Level III hard armor should stop multiple .223/5.56mm benEzra Mar 2015 #10
green bullets jimmy the one Mar 2015 #37
Oh my....let's discuss. benEzra Mar 2015 #39
Take a rather pedestrian bullet sarisataka Mar 2015 #41
Support your BATFE jimmy the one Mar 2015 #47
suspended, fear of rabies jimmy the one Mar 2015 #48
"Rabid gun zealotry to the rescue" beevul Mar 2015 #49
Pointing out facts is always "rabid gun zealotry" if those facts benEzra Mar 2015 #54
at what point does nra idiocy offend reason jimmy the one Mar 2015 #60
Because M855 is lead-core *NON* AP, and if it can be designated AP under the new framework benEzra Mar 2015 #65
angry gun owners win jimmy the one Mar 2015 #67
What a misleading title. beevul Mar 2015 #68
The only person angry in this thread is you. benEzra Mar 2015 #72
Jimmy makes some excellent points samsingh Mar 2015 #76
Hard to see with his hat on though. DonP Mar 2015 #80
Such as? benEzra Mar 2015 #85
Eh? Straw Man Mar 2015 #16
I doubt you will get a response Duckhunter935 Mar 2015 #22
you lose jimmy the one Mar 2015 #46
Fail, as this is not what you Duckhunter935 Mar 2015 #58
Comprehension? Straw Man Mar 2015 #59
girlie men could use them jimmy the one Mar 2015 #61
Nonsense. Straw Man Mar 2015 #62
forget about level III bpv? jimmy the one Mar 2015 #64
More stuff. Straw Man Mar 2015 #66
odd bullet, but effective jimmy the one Mar 2015 #69
A black hole? Straw Man Mar 2015 #70
relative special theories jimmy the one Mar 2015 #73
Relative nonsense. Straw Man Mar 2015 #74
he am teacher, hear him roar jimmy the one Mar 2015 #75
Thanks for pointing out my typo, Jimmy. Straw Man Mar 2015 #78
little big man jimmy the one Mar 2015 #81
Grammar Games Straw Man Mar 2015 #83
picking nits, straw man style jimmy the one Mar 2015 #86
More games. Straw Man Mar 2015 #87
straw man on a high horse jimmy the one Mar 2015 #91
The hits just keep on coming. Straw Man Mar 2015 #92
pile driving effect still true, afaik jimmy the one Mar 2015 #95
Blahdy blahdy blah blah ... Straw Man Mar 2015 #96
more jimmy the one Mar 2015 #99
Typo? Straw Man Mar 2015 #104
what was so good about him? jimmy the one Mar 2015 #110
HST? Straw Man Mar 2015 #112
gonzo journalism jimmy the one Mar 2015 #115
So in Jimmy's lexicon ... Straw Man Mar 2015 #116
The "straw man" is pretending that M855 out of a pistol can penetrate Level III armor. It can't. benEzra Mar 2015 #93
The military uses it... discntnt_irny_srcsm Mar 2015 #94
pile drivers jimmy the one Mar 2015 #98
"Unlikely but possible" benEzra Mar 2015 #107
recoil chart jimmy the one Mar 2015 #108
Couple problems that will affect the calc. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #114
It's not that pressures are different (they are the same), it's the way the leade is cut. benEzra Mar 2015 #119
Yes, exactly. benEzra Mar 2015 #118
knight's gambit thru enemy territory jimmy the one Mar 2015 #111
Well... benEzra Mar 2015 #117
2-5 leave.....m msanthrope Mar 2015 #103
thanks, ms ann thrope jimmy the one Apr 2015 #120
Here's the thing, James. blueridge3210 Mar 2015 #79
And this particular contention is *ludicrous*. benEzra Mar 2015 #71
.223 handguns Straw Man Mar 2015 #63
You are completely, totally and hilariously wrong. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #90
enormous or hilarious jimmy the one Mar 2015 #109
I agree with Erza's comment. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #113
It works that way in Call of Duty, amirite? benEzra Mar 2015 #40
you are making good points Jimmy samsingh Mar 2015 #77
play it again, sam jimmy the one Mar 2015 #82
In other words ... Straw Man Mar 2015 #84
Do people shoot at you a lot on your motorcycle? AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #89
leather better than kevlar? dark ages logic jimmy the one Mar 2015 #97
Reading comprehension. It's fundamental. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #100
The Straight Dope; Fighting ignorance since 1973 (It's taking longer than we thought) AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #101
"It's just they're terribly comfortable I think everyone will be wearing them in the future" AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #102
By the way, that motorcycle suit you linked to? 600D Coudra, not Kevlar. Genius move there. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #105
Everyone knows this is a feel good Moms and Bloomy pleasing ban. ileus Mar 2015 #9
Hmmm. Wonder why our resident "statistics expert" is remaining silent? NT pablo_marmol Mar 2015 #11
It's just another ploy to chisel away at gun rights. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #12
I wonder if this changes things? blueridge3210 Mar 2015 #13
The whine cellar is gonna have a sad about that! friendly_iconoclast Mar 2015 #14
funny they say firearms are not regulated Duckhunter935 Mar 2015 #15
"The whine cellar..." Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2015 #42
You should be. I only stea...err, borrow from the best! friendly_iconoclast Mar 2015 #45
Piling this atop the rest of this fiasco certainly doesn't help their case... benEzra Mar 2015 #17
If I wore a tin foil hat Duckhunter935 Mar 2015 #18
Trial balloon? blueridge3210 Mar 2015 #19
Why does every article sarisataka Mar 2015 #20
predictably, another post in the other group that links to Duckhunter935 Mar 2015 #21
And as expected: blueridge3210 Mar 2015 #23
Facts do not matter as much as purity Duckhunter935 Mar 2015 #24
Think this question will be answered Duckhunter935 Mar 2015 #25
You guys would whine about that, too, if it went that way. nt Electric Monk Mar 2015 #26
Nope, just curious how many more you are going to block Duckhunter935 Mar 2015 #27
I notice you haven't chimed in much on the ammo ban proposal. beevul Mar 2015 #28
just ask him as a simple yes or no question Duckhunter935 Mar 2015 #30
Reclass them as SBR's, problem solved. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #106
another answer as expected in that group Duckhunter935 Mar 2015 #29
Hey, they admitted that AR-15 rifles are typically used by target shooters and hunters. benEzra Mar 2015 #31
and when some gun manufacturer comes up with a bullpup pistol version, what then? Electric Monk Mar 2015 #32
nice cartoon Duckhunter935 Mar 2015 #33
We buy one...or two...a in home self defense dream come true. ileus Mar 2015 #34
They already do (Steyr AUG and IMI Tavor). benEzra Mar 2015 #35
The basic mechanics of firearms... discntnt_irny_srcsm Mar 2015 #36
You haven't made the case why they shouldn't be allowed for civilians. beevul Mar 2015 #38
"its up to you to make the case why they shouldn't be, beyond 'I don't like them'." Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2015 #55
Me and my high-minded beliefs... beevul Mar 2015 #56
Ugh! Why must these peasants always be starting so much trouble! Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2015 #57
Update: It looks like the good guys won. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #43
Good to hear. It appears sometimes facts can win out over the scaremongering. benEzra Mar 2015 #44
And likely another bump in NRA, SAF and state associations membership N/T DonP Mar 2015 #53
if you want to ban something, you go after the least effective regulations first Taitertots Mar 2015 #50
Excellent and informative post tularetom Mar 2015 #51
Yup, exactly. (n/t) benEzra Mar 2015 #52
INTERESTING. I just learned that 55gr lead-core FMJ (but ironically not 62gr M855) benEzra Mar 2015 #88
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