Gun Control & RKBA

DetlefK

(16,670 posts)

133. Insisting that something makes sense does not mean that it makes sense.

Thu Apr 30, 2015, 09:07 AM

Apr 2015

1. The most effective tool for defense is also the most effective tool for offense in our case. That means that you insist on giving other people the option to kill you. Does that make you more secure?

2. Let's assume that you are right. Let's assume that everybody should have the best weapon there is available for self-defense.
People use guns.
Then people start wearing bullet-proof vests to defend themselves against guns.
Then people start using armour-piercing rounds to defend themselves against bulletproof vests.
Then people start using better armour to defend themselves against armour-piercing rounds.
Then people start using toxic gas to defend themselves against this advanced armour.
Then people start using gas-masks to defend themselves against toxic gas.
...

When is the point reached where you can defend yourself successfully against a bad guy?

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Shopper guilty in tackling of man with gun at Walmart [View all] GGJohn Apr 2015 OP

The good old west Politicalboi Apr 2015 #1

You're actually blaming WalMart for this asshole's actions? GGJohn Apr 2015 #2

So you're telling me that WalMart Politicalboi Apr 2015 #4

No, that's not what I'm telling you. GGJohn Apr 2015 #6

WalMart doesn't need to follow that policy Politicalboi Apr 2015 #10

Mr. Foster has every thing to lose, GGJohn Apr 2015 #13

"We have rights too." Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2015 #125

Your sig line is so ridiculous. GGJohn Apr 2015 #126

Or basic common machine tools. N/T beevul Apr 2015 #127

Wait, it's easy to smuggle ammo into the country? tridim Apr 2015 #151

Were you under the impression that it's difficult to smuggle *anything* into this country? friendly_iconoclast Apr 2015 #157

No but I had no idea that it is currently "easy to smuggle ammo" into this country. WTF? tridim Apr 2015 #159

By all means, contact the Department of Homeland Security... friendly_iconoclast Apr 2015 #160

it is easy to smuggle cocaine and heroin in gejohnston Apr 2015 #161

Walmart innocent yeoman6987 Apr 2015 #9

And that's INSANE! Politicalboi Apr 2015 #18

Perhaps but until a Constitutional Amendment yeoman6987 Apr 2015 #21

Then you would have to move to a different country, GGJohn Apr 2015 #25

let's do a little comparison melm00se Apr 2015 #132

nope. gejohnston Apr 2015 #3

I do know there may have been racism in his attack Politicalboi Apr 2015 #5

WalMart doesn't allow these confrontations, all WalMart does is GGJohn Apr 2015 #7

It's their property Politicalboi Apr 2015 #12

That's the point I'm making, GGJohn Apr 2015 #14

Even though it's their own property? Politicalboi Apr 2015 #19

Who are you to say it's not life or death? GGJohn Apr 2015 #29

blaming the victim? gejohnston Apr 2015 #15

Foster is a racist. gejohnston Apr 2015 #11

LOL! Politicalboi Apr 2015 #16

Then you quite obviously know NOTHING about those of us that choose GGJohn Apr 2015 #17

Us non carriers have rights too Politicalboi Apr 2015 #22

you realize of course, gejohnston Apr 2015 #26

I'm not defending cops Politicalboi Apr 2015 #33

federal law prohibits abusers from possessing gejohnston Apr 2015 #35

Us heterosexuals have rights too. pablo_marmol May 2015 #166

I know that you advocate murder. stone space Apr 2015 #91

Lying about what I said again? GGJohn Apr 2015 #93

There's nothing justifiable about murder. stone space Apr 2015 #96

And self-defense is not murder. (nt) blueridge3210 Apr 2015 #98

And doubling down on the lies. eom. GGJohn Apr 2015 #99

Wow. Not just a lie.....but a *filthy* lie. pablo_marmol May 2015 #167

Do you ever tire of being wrong? blueridge3210 Apr 2015 #94

that isn't murder gejohnston Apr 2015 #95

Really? gejohnston Apr 2015 #24

then why is most gun violence drug related? Politicalboi Apr 2015 #36

you really don't know anything gejohnston Apr 2015 #38

I've read stories of that happening and you'll never guess where Politicalboi Apr 2015 #44

do you understand that dog bites man isn't news, gejohnston Apr 2015 #47

Isn't it amazing sarisataka Apr 2015 #27

yes indeed, we can. gejohnston Apr 2015 #28

Some DUers don't realize how they contribute to racial tension. Liberal, indeed. Eleanors38 Apr 2015 #109

What? More likely the gun owner who was legal yeoman6987 Apr 2015 #8

Interesting theory... sarisataka Apr 2015 #20

Then maybe they need to amend the law Politicalboi Apr 2015 #23

I don't follow you sarisataka Apr 2015 #32

I can't smoke my cigarette in WalMart Politicalboi Apr 2015 #39

You can't smoke in Wal-Mart sarisataka Apr 2015 #43

It's not like that though Politicalboi Apr 2015 #45

still no gejohnston Apr 2015 #51

"I just don't see where it's too much to ask for." beevul Apr 2015 #114

And doesn't Florida have that Stand Your Ground Law? Politicalboi Apr 2015 #30

Dude, you really need to learn about the SYG laws. GGJohn Apr 2015 #31

He sees a gun and he "feels" threatened Politicalboi Apr 2015 #40

do you know what the reasonable person standard is? gejohnston Apr 2015 #41

The thing I got about SYG was it Politicalboi Apr 2015 #46

the first was probably California gejohnston Apr 2015 #49

most states have stand your ground, 33 gejohnston Apr 2015 #34

"How do you judge something you don't know anything about?" pablo_marmol Apr 2015 #42

and even if it wasn't a SYG state, gejohnston Apr 2015 #37

I guess I just bit off more than I can chew Politicalboi Apr 2015 #48

here is a hint gejohnston Apr 2015 #50

That's what I'm asking for when I make trips to the local store. ileus Apr 2015 #57

Link to the DU thread of the Jan 20 event ManiacJoe Apr 2015 #52

WTF? Tackling that guy was the perfectly logical thing to do. Seriously not kidding. DetlefK Apr 2015 #53

Interestingly enough Shamash Apr 2015 #54

Your logic is flawless and I agree: "Stop&Frisk" is a great idea. Here's another one: DetlefK Apr 2015 #56

So... Shamash Apr 2015 #58

Nice. DetlefK Apr 2015 #62

Try this Shamash Apr 2015 #70

How to tell the difference: Is someone threatening you? All clear? nt Eleanors38 Apr 2015 #107

Re: 2011 US homicide rate discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2015 #111

Foster is convicted of a crime and faces jail time blueridge3210 Apr 2015 #59

Legal, moral and logical are not the same. DetlefK Apr 2015 #60

How did Daniels look like a "bad guy with a gun"? blueridge3210 Apr 2015 #61

Most excellent question. DetlefK Apr 2015 #63

The bad guy with a gun blueridge3210 Apr 2015 #64

That's like saying a good stock will rise, a bad stock will fall. DetlefK Apr 2015 #65

How do we tell a legitimate shopper blueridge3210 Apr 2015 #68

Of course it's possible Shamash Apr 2015 #71

So it would appear. (nt) blueridge3210 Apr 2015 #72

Agreed, we can't. But the consequences of our failures make the difference. DetlefK Apr 2015 #79

So, then you advocate tackling anyone blueridge3210 Apr 2015 #80

Let's say... DetlefK Apr 2015 #83

Keep calling on "suspicious" blueridge3210 Apr 2015 #84

Your freedom ends where my freedom begins. DetlefK Apr 2015 #85

It's not a zero sum game. blueridge3210 Apr 2015 #88

It does infringe. DetlefK Apr 2015 #89

How do you manage to get through life at all? blueridge3210 Apr 2015 #92

Oh, I worry about a lot. DetlefK Apr 2015 #100

"If 99.9% of gun-owners pose no threat to you" blueridge3210 Apr 2015 #102

If 99.9% of gun-owners pose no threat to you, why would you need a gun in the first place? Shamash Apr 2015 #103

Good grief. beevul Apr 2015 #116

Where do they get this; "I have a right to not be afraid" idea? Did I miss a SCOTUS decision? DonP Apr 2015 #119

re: "The freedom to never be worried about violent death" discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2015 #120

"I wonder if he moved to Germany from Italy?" friendly_iconoclast Apr 2015 #122

"Baldr Odinson" strikes again? DonP Apr 2015 #123

All that pompous self-importance would play well there... friendly_iconoclast Apr 2015 #124

Last post here. DetlefK Apr 2015 #128

Sorry, but that's BS. GGJohn Apr 2015 #129

"That's BS." Excellent refute. DetlefK Apr 2015 #130

That's all the refuting needed. GGJohn Apr 2015 #131

Insisting that something makes sense does not mean that it makes sense. DetlefK Apr 2015 #133

All those scenario's you've laid out? GGJohn Apr 2015 #134

Are you familiar with the concepts of "logic" and "rationality"? DetlefK Apr 2015 #139

I'll ask you again. GGJohn Apr 2015 #140

I am seriously doubting your mental capacity right now. (Not kidding.) DetlefK Apr 2015 #141

All of which hasn't happened has it? GGJohn Apr 2015 #142

You, Sir, are a pigeon. DetlefK Apr 2015 #143

You, Sir, are a moron Shamash Apr 2015 #149

300 years? DetlefK May 2015 #163

Your scenario is not logic sarisataka Apr 2015 #145

So... Which one of my steps was wrong? DetlefK May 2015 #164

Your steps presume that the level of violence would increase along with the # of weapons friendly_iconoclast May 2015 #165

Would you be offended sarisataka May 2015 #168

My family has sarisataka Apr 2015 #90

It certainly appears so. blueridge3210 Apr 2015 #97

Would you like to know, before people speak, whether they'll incite a riot too? beevul Apr 2015 #115

I got it! I got it! He was black! uh, I mean, I hear that all the time here in DU... Eleanors38 Apr 2015 #110

re: "looked like a bad guy..." discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2015 #86

He looked like a "black guy with a gun" - there, fixed it for you. nt hack89 Apr 2015 #73

He looked like a bad guy with a gun because he was a black man tularetom Apr 2015 #106

WTF? Tackling that guy was the perfectly logical thing to do. Seriously not kidding. GGJohn Apr 2015 #66

Legal isn't the same as logical, otherwise Wall Street banksters would be in jail. DetlefK Apr 2015 #67

How logical is it to tackle someone minding their own business? GGJohn Apr 2015 #69

Again... DetlefK Apr 2015 #76

Foster could have been legally shot in self defense. blueridge3210 Apr 2015 #77

I would choose minding my own damn business if there is no threat. GGJohn Apr 2015 #78

And the gun owners are supposed to be the vigilantes? DonP Apr 2015 #87

HA! Vigilantism: It's not just for gun-owners. Eleanors38 Apr 2015 #112

"There is no way to tell a bad guy with a gun from a good guy with a gun before the violence..." beevul Apr 2015 #121

Attacking people for doing perfectly legal things may be logical to you hack89 Apr 2015 #74

I think you replied to the wrong person. eom. GGJohn Apr 2015 #75

You are right - my coffee powered sarcasm detector is low on fuel. nt hack89 Apr 2015 #81

No problem. GGJohn Apr 2015 #82

"do battle with our cattle." oneshooter Apr 2015 #117

Charge the with a "Mooooving" violation? blueridge3210 Apr 2015 #118

Politicalboi is clueless Shamash Apr 2015 #55

How many more Walmart customers must die before Walmart does something? stone space Apr 2015 #144

But this is not about someone's death sarisataka Apr 2015 #146

How many Wal Mart customers died in this incident? blueridge3210 Apr 2015 #147

Clarence Daniels didn't follow the OP's advice. stone space Apr 2015 #150

More lies. blueridge3210 Apr 2015 #155

I'm glad he has been convicted for the assault. bravenak Apr 2015 #101

^^^ +100 ^^^ discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2015 #105

This message was self-deleted by its author NoJusticeNoPeace Apr 2015 #104

White guy convicted of attacking Islamist -- Defended on DU. lord. Eleanors38 Apr 2015 #108

This is the appropriate outcome Gothmog Apr 2015 #113

Regarding your alert of April 29th, 2015 stone space Apr 2015 #135

Yeah? So what? GGJohn Apr 2015 #136

Good call. NaturalHigh Apr 2015 #137

Michael Foster gets the Jughead Award for this one. NaturalHigh Apr 2015 #138

That some here on DU want him dead? stone space Apr 2015 #148

Nobody wants him dead. Get a grip. NaturalHigh Apr 2015 #152

Making excuses for murdering him. stone space Apr 2015 #153

OK dude, have it your way. NaturalHigh Apr 2015 #154

"Yeah, I'd say that some here want him dead." Name one, then friendly_iconoclast Apr 2015 #158

Now I know for a fact that you're no teacher, GGJohn Apr 2015 #162

The pro-GC position? sarisataka Apr 2015 #156