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jimmy the one

(2,708 posts)
53. #1's false premises
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 12:44 PM
Jun 2015

shamash: .. an M1 carbine, a magazine-fed semi-auto rifle capable of using high-capacity magazines .. It has been available to civilians since 1945, and required no background check or license or even ID to purchase in an era (circa 1950) where the per capita firearm murder rate was the same or lower than it is today (circa 2010).

It is, arguably, the carbine to the m1 garand army rifle of wwII; the m1 carbine wasn't that effective at stopping Japanese soldiers, American GI's complaint was it took 3 shots where the m1 took one. So the carbine was short on stopping power.

shamash: Question: If you feel that this sort of weapon should be banned, list all other technologies freely available to civilians with no restriction in 1945 that you deem too dangerous to be allowed for any civilian to own today, despite there being no evidence of increased harm due to the civilian ownership of that technology?

You created two false dilemmas in #1, two faulty premises. First, you ignore the large BULGE in murder rates between 1950 & ~2010, as if there never was a doubling of murder rates & gun murder rates. Second, since circa early 1960's the current violent crime rate remains doubled, thus your contention that '..no evidence of increased harm due to the civilian ownership of that technology...' is dubious, & subject to scrutiny.

wiki, m1 carbine: The M1 carbine with its reduced-power .30 cartridge was not originally intended to serve as a primary weapon for combat infantrymen, nor was it comparable to more powerful rifles developed late in the war... Other soldiers and Marines engaged in frequent daily firefights (particularly in the Philippines) found the weapon to have insufficient stopping power and penetration. Reports of the carbine's failure to stop enemy soldiers, sometimes after multiple hits, appeared in individual after-action reports, postwar evaluations, and service histories of both the U.S. Army and the U.S. Marine Corps. Aware of these shortcomings, the U.S. Army.. continued to work on shortened versions of the M1 rifle throughout the war, though none was ever officially adopted.

Question: why do all the questions assume a deadly, mobile, concealable WMD is a fluffy toy? Unneeded gun ownership is terrorism. Fred Sanders Jun 2015 #1
Readers, see note at top of post and infer appropriately Shamash Jun 2015 #2
The inference says volumes about cartoon scrapers/Third Way® apologists... friendly_iconoclast Jun 2015 #15
We ain't in Canada, Fred, GGJohn Jun 2015 #4
What about Canada? gejohnston Jun 2015 #7
Why won't those guns just stop killing people? ileus Jun 2015 #10
"Unneeded gun ownership is terrorism." Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2015 #13
Reposting cartoons, while insulting others, is easy. Answering questions is hard friendly_iconoclast Jun 2015 #16
Well ... Straw Man Jun 2015 #17
"WMD" Lizzie Poppet Jun 2015 #44
Excellent post! Omnith Jun 2015 #3
I am puzzled upaloopa Jun 2015 #5
The point is two-fold Shamash Jun 2015 #8
It is like a push poll upaloopa Jun 2015 #12
How so? Shamash Jun 2015 #14
"It is like a push poll." NO. It is NOT. NT pablo_marmol Jun 2015 #20
Actually, I do not feel that it's good enough to be called a push-poll rock Jun 2015 #27
Since I'm always interested in self-improvement Shamash Jun 2015 #35
Well I'll try at least in part to answer you rock Jun 2015 #40
That premise is simple Shamash Jun 2015 #46
I do not except your premise rock Jun 2015 #49
I wish to save lives as well Shamash Jun 2015 #52
"I want to save people's lives........." pablo_marmol Jun 2015 #62
"I do not believe we can arrive at a mutually agreed upon viewpoint." pablo_marmol Jun 2015 #63
If saving lives is the objective let's look at the facts. Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2015 #66
Please don't tell me ... Straw Man Jun 2015 #18
To upaloopa's credit Shamash Jun 2015 #22
"Sorry but I see your post as a self serving trap." pablo_marmol Jun 2015 #21
Very good thread. GGJohn Jun 2015 #6
244 posts....you're gonna be labeled a Rand Paul loving gun troll. ileus Jun 2015 #9
I've been called a lot of things Shamash Jun 2015 #11
Outstanding post Shamash. I expect you'll be getting nothing but dodges and slurs, though. pablo_marmol Jun 2015 #19
He's not even managing the normal troll posts on this one....remarkable. ileus Jun 2015 #23
I wonder if it shouldn't be retitled. beevul Jun 2015 #24
I guess they'll have to speak up. krispos42 Jun 2015 #25
So let's hear your answers to those questions rock Jun 2015 #26
Not necessary in my case, since I am not a gun control advocate Shamash Jun 2015 #29
Just me Comatose Sphagetti Jun 2015 #28
Sure, I wouldn't have a problem with it. GGJohn Jun 2015 #30
Have never been thrust into that situation before. Comatose Sphagetti Jun 2015 #37
You do have the right to not have firearms in your home, GGJohn Jun 2015 #41
yes, very true Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #51
I'd be comfortable with it Shamash Jun 2015 #31
Or... Comatose Sphagetti Jun 2015 #34
I understand your discomfort Shamash Jun 2015 #38
Thanks for understanding my discomfort. Comatose Sphagetti Jun 2015 #39
Discomfort is not a reason for regulation, though Shamash Jun 2015 #47
I would have no issues with it Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #50
Just me Comatose Sphagetti Jun 2015 #32
Yes I do find that strange and stupid. GGJohn Jun 2015 #33
he needs to read this book gejohnston Jun 2015 #43
Just me Comatose Sphagetti Jun 2015 #36
some people have too many shoes gejohnston Jun 2015 #42
Just curious........... pablo_marmol Jun 2015 #45
Agreed Shamash Jun 2015 #48
#1's false premises jimmy the one Jun 2015 #53
You've never been long on logic or intelligence Shamash Jun 2015 #57
not quite right, shamash, not right at all jimmy the one Jun 2015 #60
#4, specious reasoning exposed jimmy the one Jun 2015 #54
specious casuistry jimmy the one Jun 2015 #55
"The 2nd amendment was a right all right, to serve in a militia." beevul Jun 2015 #56
beev peeved jimmy the one Jun 2015 #61
heimlich maneuver needed, quick jimmy the one Jun 2015 #70
You think you're being cute and sharp witted, GGJohn Jun 2015 #71
my right to self defense, against slurs jimmy the one Jun 2015 #77
The individual right was to keep and bear arms sarisataka Jun 2015 #78
2ndA obsolete & worthless jimmy the one Jun 2015 #81
It still restricts government. beevul Jun 2015 #84
Amendments do not become obsolete... sarisataka Jun 2015 #88
intractables jimmy the one Jun 2015 #89
"(S)ubjective gibberish"? I'll gladly stipulate your expertise on the subject... friendly_iconoclast Jun 2015 #90
Just for you, james. beevul Jun 2015 #79
most firearms belonged to british 1775 jimmy the one Jun 2015 #82
What a joke. beevul Jun 2015 #83
where it all began jimmy the one Jun 2015 #85
Heres where your problem lies james. beevul Jun 2015 #86
For once I have to agree with you sarisataka Jun 2015 #73
More lack of logic on your part Shamash Jun 2015 #58
shamash's sham jimmy the one Jun 2015 #59
The militia argument again? Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2015 #64
Don't hold your breath ... DonP Jun 2015 #67
the unorganized donP jimmy the one Jun 2015 #68
As usual - ignorance on the half shell DonP Jun 2015 #69
emerson miller catalysts jimmy the one Jun 2015 #72
"Now provide one..." Consider the word 'moot', James. friendly_iconoclast Jun 2015 #74
Ain't it interesting how they cling to obsolete interpretations? DonP Jun 2015 #76
Does anyone even post over there anymore? Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #80
Apparently. beevul Jun 2015 #87
The 2A protects a individual right according to the Democratic Party platform hack89 Jun 2015 #65
Some Palin-level 'legal scholars' seem to have a problem with that... friendly_iconoclast Jun 2015 #75
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