Gun Control & RKBA

procon

(15,805 posts)

15. Attitudes change and people evolve as civil societies mature.

Fri Jul 17, 2015, 10:12 AM

Jul 2015

It takes time, often a generation, but it happens all the time. Look at how we, as a country, have totally changed our views toward alcohol and cigarettes, and now marijuana is transcendent. Our collective attitudes on civil rights and women's are still expanding, and the rapid shift of our views on gays and the LGBT community is unprecedented. So changing our frame of mind about key issues like this that affect our country can happen.

Not every gun owner would, or even should give up their guns, and I don't think that is a useful perspective as it only provokes fear, anger and resentment. Look at the scope of the nationwide programs that were employed to change the hearts and minds of the"Mad Man" style dependence on alcohol that predominated our cultural norms as a social crutch 50 years ago. We already know how to to do this, but until we convince our timid politicians to give up their bribes and listen to their constituencies, we are stuck in limbo.

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This country will never be able to control guns and there is only one inevitable conclusion... [View all] luvspeas Jul 2015 OP

Control is a myth, it doesn't exist. n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2015 #1

Yea..... daleanime Jul 2015 #5

We need to accept the idea that the rule of law will never... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2015 #17

So, how else do we deplete the pool of criminals? AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #28

^^^ Respect is a real key ^^^ discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2015 #30

^^^This is how intelligent, honorable Democrats think pablo_marmol Jul 2015 #98

We have been saying the same thing for years.. virginia mountainman Jul 2015 #102

Australia did it with new laws and a massive gun buyback procon Jul 2015 #2

It's a much bigger problem here. By more than ten times. luvspeas Jul 2015 #4

Not a valid reason to go along with the status quo. procon Jul 2015 #8

Mandatory registration laws have a less than 5% compliancy rate. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #12

Attitudes change and people evolve as civil societies mature. procon Jul 2015 #15

I'm all for firearm safety education. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #16

In fairness, the NFA seems to have been successful. AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #26

While I agree regarding the status quo... Lizzie Poppet Jul 2015 #13

im not saying we shouldn't try I'm saying no matter what we do luvspeas Jul 2015 #14

We can't throw simply throw the baby out with the bathwater over a few outliers. procon Jul 2015 #113

The biggest obstacle to confiscation is the fact TeddyR Jul 2015 #96

Doing nothing is not a solution. procon Jul 2015 #112

No they don't "want better control".. virginia mountainman Jul 2015 #103

Dixie Swastika. NRA Swastika. Both coming down. It is only logical. 320 million guns. Irrefutable. Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #109

Speaking of logic, you seem to be lacking it completly in this post.. virginia mountainman Jul 2015 #120

You were amusing, now you are Full Ignore #39...you earned it with one too many personal attacks. Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #121

Since it will spare me the chants of "Vile NRA", "Dixie Swastika", et cetera, add me! friendly_iconoclast Jul 2015 #124

Never understood why someone would block the views of those they disagree with TeddyR Jul 2015 #127

They must block it.. virginia mountainman Jul 2015 #141

I thought you said you were up to #45. oneshooter Jul 2015 #129

I thought it was #47 Shamash Jul 2015 #132

LOL! I am not the one making up words, and ignoring basic grammar.. virginia mountainman Jul 2015 #136

Australia doesn't have a 2nd amendment like mechanism. AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #25

Australia also does not permit AK-47 style assault-type weapons to be so freely and easily purchased. Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #33

Right, but AK's are in common use so, protected by the 2nd Amendment. AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #35

Australia also bans pump shotguns, and is now talking about banning lever-actions benEzra Jul 2015 #111

Let Australia act in their own best interests. procon Jul 2015 #114

We have. Our existing firearms laws reflect the U.S. consensus. benEzra Jul 2015 #115

I question that scenerio. procon Jul 2015 #43

That only prohibited the manufacture of new ones. AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #46

But voluntarily turning in your gun is. nt procon Jul 2015 #61

Sure, that would be legal. AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #64

It's quite common in California. procon Jul 2015 #73

It's a rare day when someone turns in an AR though. AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #81

The 1994 Feinstein law banned no guns, and actually tripled sales of AR's and AK's after 1994. benEzra Jul 2015 #116

Instead of spending effort defending the status quo, procon Jul 2015 #118

Yes. Taking down the Dixie Swastika and making it radioactive is an excellent and topical example. Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #122

We sure are! discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2015 #123

Well, there haven't been any mass bayonetings since then, right? Shamash Jul 2015 #125

If you think that's a significant issue then keep at it and demand a greater effort procon Jul 2015 #126

Not sure what was "won." Subsequent critics have contended the "turn-in" rate is much smaller Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #41

Yes, but the law still had desired results. procon Jul 2015 #55

The problem with Australia's crime rate: It shares that phenomenon with many countries... Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #69

We've already done it. procon Jul 2015 #74

So "very powerful guns" is "again" fluid, subject to ever-more restriction? Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #76

Except you're fighting to ban many of the *least* powerful and *least* misused. benEzra Jul 2015 #117

won what? gejohnston Jul 2015 #110

Constitutional amendment giving all citizens the right to free body armor and helmets lostnfound Jul 2015 #3

I don't see how the right to life conflicts with the right to bear arms. AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #36

The right of sane people to bear arms = okay. Right of insane people to bear arms = problem. lostnfound Jul 2015 #88

What do you mean by 'insane'? AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #91

To me, the community of gun owners ought to be responsible for figuring out a solution lostnfound Jul 2015 #94

"To me, the community of gun owners out to be responsible........." pablo_marmol Jul 2015 #119

Drunk driving is illegal whether or not you kill someone. lostnfound Jul 2015 #130

even if it were possible, it would have zero effect gejohnston Jul 2015 #131

Japan's one of my favorite countries. Nt lostnfound Jul 2015 #133

I lived there gejohnston Jul 2015 #134

as a post script, gejohnston Jul 2015 #135

Maybe when their suicide rate isn't double what ours is pablo_marmol Jul 2015 #138

You completely misinterpreted my post. Try reading it again. pablo_marmol Jul 2015 #137

When these murders occur, the last thing discussed are guns yeoman6987 Jul 2015 #6

"Everything else is discussed but guns!" Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #19

My goodness! With all respect, where have you been? Virtually every shooting that Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #42

A british criminologist found out that guns are neither solution to nor cause of gun-violence. DetlefK Jul 2015 #7

So are you saying that I am wrong in the direction we are heading? luvspeas Jul 2015 #9

As I said... DetlefK Jul 2015 #10

Yet violent crime rate in England is up since their handgun ban Travis_0004 Jul 2015 #54

The US is already adapted to mass shootings. IMO, a mass shooting per week is not far away. AlinPA Jul 2015 #68

Don't know about Czechia but if Americans had to go through flamin lib Jul 2015 #11

The Swiss Constitution grants an explicit right to individual firearm ownership. n/t Shamash Jul 2015 #21

If we had a Swiss-style national security strategy I would wager Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #78

It would be good to see this study, and I have heard of it... Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #52

found the link DetlefK Jul 2015 #108

I think there is an authentic and on the whole positive quality to individual(ism)... Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #140

Remember Chris Rock on "Bullet Control"? procon Jul 2015 #18

The Controller over-reliance on cartoons and comedians makes it very hard to take them seriously. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #20

Post removed Post removed Jul 2015 #23

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your alert AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #32

A safer post would have been to stick to references to penis-length & paranoia. Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #44

Nope, the penis reference was hidden sarisataka Jul 2015 #50

Oh my. It seems she is laboring under the misconceptions that I am a man and the alerter. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #79

Thank you. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #57

I still say the genie is out of the bottle and we are headed toward one inevitable conclusion luvspeas Jul 2015 #22

"There will be blood. more blood." In the streets, no doubt... friendly_iconoclast Jul 2015 #40

Murder rate is trending down with 300+ million guns in play, so why exactly are you doom and gloomin AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #24

It won't happen because the number of deaths per capita is low krispos42 Jul 2015 #27

When there are enough victim's: Sadly that is when things will change lewebley3 Jul 2015 #29

Are 320 million guns and easy access to them a proximal cause of mass murders? A real head scratcher, eh? Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #31

$200 a gun would net more rust than anything else n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2015 #34

You *do* realize you're pouring cold water onto someone's dream friendly_iconoclast Jul 2015 #38

I'm amazed Fred hasn't thrown his back out with that stretch DonP Jul 2015 #92

Culture warriors tend to be rather tone-deaf when it comes to messaging friendly_iconoclast Jul 2015 #100

If Fred's ignorance about guns was water, California's drought would be over by now. n/t Shamash Jul 2015 #51

Hell yes. I love gun buybacks! Travis_0004 Jul 2015 #58

Good for you! Please support a national gun buyback program, it is clearly a vital component of control. Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #62

"Please support a national gun buyback program, it is clearly a vital component of control." Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #80

It's clearly nothing of the sort. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2015 #90

"A real head scratcher, eh?" Not for those that don't believe in animism... friendly_iconoclast Jul 2015 #63

Gun Control has reached a point in this nation.. virginia mountainman Jul 2015 #37

"Mockery", and derivatives thereof, is indeed one word gun-lovers understand well and richly deserve to know the meaning of. Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #39

If you have anything useful to add, feel free.. virginia mountainman Jul 2015 #45

Those grapes seem to be especially sour lately, don't they? friendly_iconoclast Jul 2015 #49

Sour?? virginia mountainman Jul 2015 #104

Some of law enforcement is apparently doing the same discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2015 #67

"Maybe 100 bullet drum mags"... because you just don't know what? That 100 bullet drums are insane?! Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #72

My 1919a4 uses a 250rd belt. oneshooter Jul 2015 #86

LOL that one when right over his head... But not me! virginia mountainman Jul 2015 #105

Seems that a lot of things fly over his head. n/t oneshooter Jul 2015 #107

The gibes of the politically ineffectual carry little or no sting... friendly_iconoclast Jul 2015 #47

Well, you just made the OP's point. FiveGoodMen Jul 2015 #83

Yes, at this point.. virginia mountainman Jul 2015 #106

If only there were no guns sarisataka Jul 2015 #48

Ever seen a sniper use a knife? liberal N proud Jul 2015 #53

As a matter of fact sarisataka Jul 2015 #56

. liberal N proud Jul 2015 #60

Marine Corps Enlisted Job Descriptions sarisataka Jul 2015 #65

a weapon is a tool and... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2015 #70

Please, how about a package of frozen meat? procon Jul 2015 #59

Glad to know that mass killings were unknown before guns were invented friendly_iconoclast Jul 2015 #66

well... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2015 #71

That isn't a good excuse for making no attempt at gun control. nt procon Jul 2015 #75

What "attempt at gun control" did you have in mind? friendly_iconoclast Jul 2015 #84

Who in the thread has advocated no gun control sarisataka Jul 2015 #87

The young man killed here in DC last week TeddyR Jul 2015 #95

Eventually, gun violence will touch the lives of NRA leadership. Then, we will NCjack Jul 2015 #77

It's unlikely that a 1%er will ever experience gun violence discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2015 #82

Conflating the vile NRA leadership with Wall Street is nothing a liberal would do, even in jest. Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #85

1%ers are not restricted to Wall Street discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2015 #89

Don't confuse him, he's on a roll DonP Jul 2015 #93

"Was it over when the Vile NRA bombed Pearl Harbor?" I am *so* going to steal that... friendly_iconoclast Jul 2015 #99

Indeed! pablo_marmol Jul 2015 #139

So what do you propose for gun control TeddyR Jul 2015 #97

Posted this about 22 hours ago TeddyR Jul 2015 #128

SOURCE OF THE PROBLEM: CAPITALISM ON STEROIDS AND GREED. YOHABLO Jul 2015 #101

That is super-vague TeddyR Jul 2015 #142